Do you remember me posting this a while ago??
http://forgetmenot525.multiply.com/journal/item/344/A_warning_about_deliberately_provocative_propaganda
Now there is something else popping up every where on blogland. Why are people so stupid?? Do you really believe there was a mass wedding involving hundreds of tiny child brides?? Are you all so ready to believe any possible evil thrown at you provided it has the tag ‘’Islam’’ posted next to it?? These two videos are posted all over the web on all sorts of blogs and are supposed to prove what depraved and wicked people these islamics are. This is supposed to be a mass wedding between adult men and little girls. Give me a break, just exactly how deeply ingrained are our prejudices that any one could actually believe this??
The following statement can be found on this web site, it took me all of 15 minutes to find!!
http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:dcc9d723-8046-4857-b618-5c1135ba6417
''The men and women are sitting, Most ignore the speeches, some even ignore the prayers. Then the fireworks explode, the cheering begins, and in march the Hamas scouts, bashing drums, looking every inch the future Hamas fighters many will be. Then the grooms, aged about 18 to about 28. They are holding hands with their young nieces and cousins, little girls aged from about 3 to 8, made up to the nines, wearing white wedding dresses.
Up they all go to the stage, the cheering and music grows ever louder. The girls were having the time of their lives, but, getting a little bored after a while, came down off the stage to dance with each other and play games.''
IT CONTINUES
''Our report on this put it into context saying that it took place just a mile from the Israeli border and was a message from Hamas about its strength confidence and future fighters. Oh and that the brides were elsewhere. Pretty straightforward.!!
It never struck me for a moment that the little girls might later be described in the bloggersphere as the brides! How naive I am.'
'Yeah ...............how bloody naive is that??
They chant 'death to america'- 'death to jews and Israel' - they cut off people's heads and launch rockets into civilian neighborhoods hoping for a random 'score' . - they have schooling and TV shows that teach them to 'martyr' themselves - little children sing songs about spreading Jewish blood all over their bodies .. . . . . . .. .and you get surprised that some may mistakenly believe they'd marry little girls ??
ReplyDeleteNo I don't get suprised, it's what i expect of ignorant people.................I get mad...............when stuff is bad, say so, when it's not.........DON'T.
ReplyDeleteAND....................CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFOR POSTING!!!
this sort of mis information just incites and increases hatred.
you are one of the hate spreaders -sorry loretta had to say that
ReplyDeletegreat blog loretta sick isn't it and to think so many of these hate spreaders are here on multiply to-
ReplyDeletethanks Heid.............can always rrely on you :-))
ReplyDeleteUrgh.
ReplyDeleteWhat is it with (mainly but not exclusively) American idiots who post such stupidity? Its sheer racism. It has nothing to do with politics.
Nessie x
so true nessiek
ReplyDeleteLOL!!!
ReplyDeleteThere are many parts of the world in which children are betrothed in marriage. There are isolated incidents that occur in this country. There are even areas in which the marriage is consumated while the "bride" is still a child. Obviously this is an abhorrent practice which we need to work to stop. However, using this practice to condemn Islam is similar to using the sexual abuse of children by priests to condemn Catholiscm.
ReplyDeleteI take it that it's my blog entry you are referring to. That's OK. Some of my primal information is to be found here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/world/middleeast/31gaza.html?_r=2
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1102703.html
New York Times is very reliable, as to the other one it may be tainted by being Israelic.
I get your point, Loretta. People should check the facts of a matter, rather than posting things up with shock/emotive value, thus to spread rumours and tabloid-style 'un-news'. It's like rumour mongering. Sometimes people only take things in in an peripheral way, next thing it's 'common knowledge' about things that were misreported as 'true' in the first place. And while there are much evils committed by people of fundamentalist religions, actions caused by religiously fuelled, hot-blooded lack of reason, what is true remains true. What is reported as fact, but isn't, needs reproof.
ReplyDeleteI am glad Ecec333 posted those links. You make an excellent point - there was such a ceremony, but the brides were adults (as were the grooms). Child marriage occurs,, but this is not an example of it. How easy it is to paint something as sinister when it is not.
ReplyDeleteLOL,never ceases to amaze me.This isn't far fetched at all.Did i miss the photo Ops with the Real Brides?I don't know what i was supposed to get from the top video because i don't speak the language.
ReplyDeleteI do believe you are right about propaganda only you are wrong about who is spreading it.Islam is nasty and i don't care how many muslims you know or are friends with.I know a few myself.Also i can only hope you have spent the amount of time i have spent....just about a decade digging into islam.Any arguements can be found on my page.
Thanks EC
ReplyDeleteI ride with you
ReplyDeleteactually.............no it wasn't specifically your blog, it has been posted many times by many people, but if you wish to lay claim to it then I guess that's ok by me.
ReplyDeleteI should add that there are different interpretations of both vidoes and photos from these events and that most - like me - have seen them as child marriages which we know are practiced quite openly in Muslim societies. Pre-teens being married off to men old enough to be their grandfathers and that kind of things.
ReplyDeleteI don't personally know any muslims..............I just don't like misinformation regardless of who it comes from or who it is aimed at.
ReplyDeleteThanks Bennett.................that is the point, it is too easy for people to jump to the wrong conclusion. Once a story has been repeated the first time, it growns and grows and becomes rooted in peoples minds as something they are sure of, it becomes 'fact', except thats it's not 'fact', it's evil propoganda which incites and increases hatred.
ReplyDeleteLOL..............yeah heard it before but always worth a laugh, thanks.
ReplyDeleteThere is no misinformation here.
ReplyDeleteThis concept of little girls as grown women is everywhere, even in the Muslim part of my own society. I give you this link, but doubt you will have much use of it as it's in Danish. Much of my information has been and I trust it as it's from authorities, like e.g. the police, or the depertment for foreign affairs. This one tells about the problem of Muslim immigrants marrying girls as young as 14, forced marriages, etc., etc., but it is in Danish: http://www.rights.no/publisher/publisher.asp?id=44&tekstid=2027
However, there are lots of this kind of information to find if one takes the time.
the videos show the grooms walking with their young neices, sisters, cousins, etc, as is their tradition. the brides are kept seperate from the grooms, as is their tradition. Therefore to show this video and claim that it shows a mass marriage of very young female children and adult men is, by definition, MISINFORMATION
ReplyDeleteI wasn't going to wade in. but I think I need to.
ReplyDeleteI think when people say "men marry young women all the time in muslim countries" what they are confusing is the act of betrothal or promise. Its like our Engagement. It was very common here in Britain and Europe til the first world war. It is NOT an actual marriage, merely an arrangement or promise of marriage at some future time if the father of the prospective bride can raise the necessary dowry and the groom is able to provide sufficiently for his bride to be. It is a contract that can be broken at any time. Just like our Engagements.
However, the laws on marriage are very clear in Palestine:
The minimum age of marriage is 15 for girls and 16 for boys. 18 is the actual legal age of responsibility but some provincial families do break the "state" law and follow Sharia law which states marriage is permissible as long as the girl is in puberty.
Now before we get on our high horses, that is almost exactly what happens in this country, Europe and the USA. And aside from the matter of a little piece of paper you are not telling me that 12, 13, and 14 year olds aren't "shacking up" with their boyfriends and having babies in these countries either!!!
Nessie x
Unfortunately, this very scenery has been interpreted differently. Some see it as you do, others see it as very young brides marrying e.g. their cousins which is customary. We know that this happens and we have no reason to believe that's not what we see.
ReplyDeleteDo you know of this marriage of a 9 year old girl? She has tried to get a divorce, but up til now in vain. When it was first known there were much writings about the TRUE habits and it was stated that they were young girl-married off-to-much-older-man-chosen-by-the-family. That is what happens and what shocks us in Western European countries is the sneakiness they use to go on with this, even in our societies. The Imams marry very young girls in the Muslim tradition and she leads the life as a wife, but she may not be registered as a married woman with the Danish authorities. When we find these cases it's like poking into debris, as such is the subjection of women in these families.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002173.html
I am aware of a situation where a priest molested numbers of young children. Few complained due to the authority of the Church. When complaints were made, the priests were shipped to other parishes. This happened all over the US. This has happened in Italy. The Church, the Holy Roman Catholic Church, has stalled in the prosecution of these priests and in paying restitution to the victims even when legally required to. So what does that say about Catholics?? If you want to solve a problem, look in your own background first.
ReplyDeleteThis is not a matter of interpretation, it is not a case of me seeing one thing and others seeing something else.It is a matter of checking facts, This story was originally reported in its correct context and then misinterpreted by many people in 'blogland' as being something very different. You say you have no reason not to believe what you see, except it is NOT what you see. It is what you automatically assumed you see due to your pre-existing set of fixed ideas.
ReplyDeleteSo ask yourself this;.............if YOU see this video and automatically, without prior knowledge of the facts, assume it is a mass wedding between adults and child brides; AND I see the video, also without prior knowledge of the facts, and despite reading a totally untrue description of the video, and I do NOT automatically arrive at the same incorrect conclusion..............what does this tell you??
Yes, I know of the same cases althouogh I'm not a Catholic and we as Protestants don't meet the same problems in our Church.
ReplyDeleteFor me to mention one case only leads to new ones. I think they are legio, at least that's my impression from readings like e.g. this: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/15/yemen.childbride/index.html
I based my blog on what I read, not as much of the videos. I knew that the general interpretation - you have one, others have another and that's the way it is with interpretations - was of one of those infamous mass child weddings which has been documented over and over again.
ReplyDeleteactually yes I have read of this, but it doesn't actually alter the fact that these videos have been deliberately misinterpreted all over the internet. Are you attempting to say that if the story of the 9 year old is true,the story of mass child brides must be true, or are you trying to say that if the story of the 9 year old is true then every one can be expected to see this video and claim (falsely) that it shows child brides, because both arguments are illogical.
ReplyDeletethat is interesting, I didn't know that, could you leave the link so that I can check it please.
ReplyDeleteMisinterpreted/Interpreted differently - that's the point and as you know by now I say that they have been interpreted differently. To disagree doesn't mean free to discard other people's interpretations as (dishonest) misinterpretations or something even worse. I still believe that the videos are of what they have been said to be.
ReplyDeletethank you dear and yes you are so right..........not about wading in of course, although you are very welcome, just right about what you say :-))
ReplyDeleteI know that's what you beleive, and your determination to hold onto that belief is more scary than any thing else.
ReplyDeleteDon't you find it interesting that I may say EXACTLY the same about you and your determination to stick to your conviction?
ReplyDeletehttp://whatreallyhappened.com/forum/35402
ReplyDeleteBEWARE OF THE HAMMAS MASS WEDDING VIDEO CLIP!
I feel that its important for every one to understand the video clip that is being paraded around the net. The ziotards are spinning it as Hamas is forcing little baby girls in a mass public wedding. WHICH IS NOT TRUE! I'm sending this out in my next news letter to all my contacts and I wanted to make sure you all here in WRH saw it too....
*****************
OKAY LISTEN UP WARRIORS! there is this video clip on the net that is being spinned by the zionazis as Hamas is forcing young babies to marry men in a huge wedding ceremony that Hamas organized for 450 couples. If you watch the video and you cannot understand Arabic or you do not know about Arab Islamic weddings you would mis understand what you see there. THE LITTLE GIRLS IN THIS VIDEO CLIP ARE NOT THE BRIDES! I REPEAT... THEY ARE NOT THE BRIDES! Here is my own Palestinian sister in law's explanation of what is going on in this clip..
"LOL, I get your concern!!!!!!..........This thing is about a mass wedding cerimony organized by Hamas as you and Angie know, the thing you are concerned about is so funny, they replaced the real brides with the little ones so they can walk around with them for all to see. It is because of religiouse purposes, the real grown up brides are in their revealing gowns and fully made in their own all women party waiting for all the festivities to cool down in the streets so they can be united with their grooms later on.
Also to tell israel and the world that we will never give up no matter what they do, burn our houses down, mutilate us, bomb the hell out of us or kill our kids,women and elders......WE WILL GET MARRIED AND HAVE MORE CHILDREN AND WE WILL KEEP AT IT."
Also my other Palestinian Sister In Law says that little girls in Arab weddings like this who are the flower carriers and candle lighters are often dressed up to look just like the bride. Here is the video clip in question. I hope that every one will tell the ziotards when they try to spin this their way that they can forget it. They have been properly PUNKED!
To FinalWitness
ReplyDeleteLadybat2
Yes they are always at it. They never even sleep it seems. But something that is even more important about this video is this...
My sister in law just came here from Gaza. We have been trying to get her and her two kids out of there for the last 3 years. It was very hard but we finally got them out. We all went through hell here when the Nazi "israelis" attacked Gaza this past winter. It was 27 days of pure hell for them and for us here.
Any way she tells me that she does not know any one in Gaza who is starving. They don't have much of any thing else but they do have food. Its because they all share. And they are very good at growing things. And as fast as the Nazi "israelis" destroy their tunnels the Pals dig more of them. They bring food and some supplies through those tunnels.
So they are not starving. But so many of them are homeless and live on the streets under blankets and other materials they try to make tents out of. When the weather is cold the ones who still have houses try and bring in as many as they can in their houses. When the weather is warm they go back out again. They grow vegtables in the dirt where their houses use to be. So God is taking care of them and making sure they have enough to eat at least.
And look at this video. Even though it was used for negative propaganda against Hamas the real message is this....
We are alive. We have food to eat. And we can even manage to have weddings. With white dresses and flowers. And weddings mean marriage. And marriage means children. More children.
We will survive.
So "israel" homeland for the Jews and the Jews only... stick that up your ziotarded asses!
LONG LIVE PALESTINE! TO RESIST IS TO EXIST! EVEN IF IT TAKES A THOUSAND YEARS!
08/01/2009 - 22:28
Now I am having that video translated by and Arabic speaking friend as it seems to be very very misleading indeed .
ReplyDeleteI will say no more till I have the actual words ... suffice to say that the video was posted by the arch enemy of the Palestine people in order to
incite hatred .....
I had a video from President of Iran translated by Iranina freinds and he did not say he wished Israel wiped of the face of the earth .. it was another lie
ReplyDelete( and I am no fan of that man I can asure you )
bottom line is look at the sourse , consider the source and then consider their agendas ... before perpetuating misinformation check the information
or you are inciting hatred .....................
guess it succeeded then, that is exactly what seems to be happening which was my point in the first place.
ReplyDeleteIncite hatred (tell lies) or offer information - time will show ...
ReplyDeleteIn December and January, Israel conducted an unprecedented offensive in the Gaza Strip, killing more than 1,300 Palestinians. About 43 percent of victims were women and children and the rest were men, most of them youths.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the Hamas project sparked criticism by pro-women groups. Samira Abdel Aleem, the Director of Women Committees said that it "degrades the dignity of the Palestinian woman who always sacrificed alongside the man."
"The woman has the right to choose her husband," Abdel Aleem said, demanding the authorities to amend the personal status law and outlawing the polygamy.
Hamas said those who want to get advantage of the project should be fiscally capable of "providing for two wives or more and must be ready to look after the children of the new wife."
They also must be committed to the moral and religious principles and provide "a private place for the new wife."
Twenty of the marriages took place outside the bereaved families.
The women, many of them mothers, were accompanied by daughters in white dresses, sons in black suits, relatives and friends.
A second Hamas mass wedding, held in the At-Tuffah neighborhood of Gaza City on Saturday, included 13 couples, among them Hamas members recently released from Israeli jails.
The wedding was put together by three neighborhood mosques and funded by the At-Tayseer charitable society.
Another two mass weddings are said to have been held in the Palestinian enclave over the past two weeks.
"We have weddings like this all the time," Um Ashraf Sayem, whose son is a Hamas official in Gaza, told The Media Line. "Sometimes it's for people who can't pay money for a wedding party. Different associations organize a group wedding for them and help them to buy furniture."
A Hamas mass wedding held in July 2009 in a Nablus sports stadium is thought to have been the largest Palestinian mass wedding ever held, with 452 couples tying the knot.
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015764924?The%20Brides%20Wore%20Black:%20Hamas%20Widows%20Re-Marry%20on%20Gaza%20Beach&FORM=ZZNR
It doesn't seem to have made a blind bit of difference though! LOL
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day, as I think one of your other bloggers has said already, people will see what they want to see, truth or not.
(((hugs)))
Nessie x
Blondin.
ReplyDeleteWell done!
Can I just point out that little girls who receive their first communion in Catholicism are often "dressed as brides?" and as you say, we use flower girls and bridesmaids in our wedding services. Traditionally, the purpose of the bridesmaid was to step in and marry the groom should there be an objection to the bride or some reason she could not be married. The same goes for the Best Man - if the groom was incapacitated, because of the solemnity of the promise of marriage to the Bride's family, the Best Man was to step in and marry her in the Groom's stead.
We still practice these archaic and centuries old traditions in our modern wedding ceremonies today. No one suggests that having a little girl as a bridesmaid is an abhorration!
Nessie x
I gave the video link to an Arabic speaking freind for translation of what it is telling us .... he is busy at work but I will post what he tells me
ReplyDeletethere are many videos on the net that when translated do not say what they are accused ir ... agendas ..... off to bed nightie nighters
We really are at the mercy of the translators, but that's nothing new, they're still debating the translation of the Bible.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that people will see what they want to see is true. Each time the story is repeated, the story grows a bit, eventually embellished to the point of not being able to recognize the original issue. That becomes quite convoluted when people show their ignorance and apathy and become dependent on fanatics and political agendas to tell them what the are seeing. They believe what they are told and make no effort to see for themselves, just a jerk knee reaction to criticize the issues and spread the word - the word, right, wrong or indifferent, the word is what they were told, not what they saw, because they didn't look for themselves; but it surely will be spread quickly. Quickly, because propaganda of hatred is the agenda. There are power, riches and the sense of superiority in keeping people divided, ignorant and in the dark. I know it is the political and religious agenda of the desperate in this country and expect that it is the same other places. Whenever I see stories such as this, just full of misinformation and judgement, I step back and wonder just who appointed the western world as the guardians of morality and censors of the traditions of others. It does come down to who really has the right to be judgemental?
If people took care of their own issues, in a knowledgeable and intelligent way, they wouldn't have time to poke their noses into the business of others. It is also most interesting that this type of deliberately provocative propaganda is being produced in the very countries that are supposed to be brokering peace in that region.
After reading many of the comments as well as the orginal post, I have to point out that the video will be intrepreted differently depending on the prospective of the person watching it. But the more important issue is that it is a fact that different cultures do things differently In fact different parts of a particular country often have different cultural norms.
ReplyDeleteWhen will we stop deciding the worth of the person based on whether they live up to OUR cultural standards or not. Yes, there are cases where real abuse takes place, and should be curtailed. But so many are ready to condemn all Islamic persons because of a solitary group doing something untoward.
Why dont we in the so called "Christian" countries reject people because of their violations of our codes. Of even more important, why do we very often not see violations of our particular codes as violations if they are common? But let one person from the "enemy" culture do something, and the whole society is ridiculed and put down as being totally EVIL. (sigh)
Islam abolished the horrible practice of female infanticide only by others speaking out against their horrible practices . As a Nation. It's ridiculous to think you could do it by just calling out individuals and not the Nation. Calling them what they were. What the people were not only for doing it but allowing it by turning their heads. Apathy doesn't do a thing. Never did.
ReplyDeleteMaybe someday we will call them out as a Nation for burying women alive. Even women who were raped. For marrying little children away That does go on -I have been there. Rather this one is real or not it still happens and they are not prosecuted or corrected. Maybe than they will stop.
Doesn't mean I or anyone hate them all--it means tough love as a group and everyone involves has to owe up to their responsibility and their shame for being a party to it to protect the innocence. Like it or not. That's life.
And you can say well this other one did this or that--still doesn't change the wrong of the first or excuse it
A 'nation' ? Please .
ReplyDeleteThe author of this blog is ignorant of the truth . . .period . Giving her excuses doesn't help .
P.S. - To the author of this blog .. . . .do you really need or want to see real videos of real incidents and real beliefs showing what barbarians they really are ?
Here a friend sent me this who lives there--he often speaks out against his" Nation"
ReplyDeletePeople of his "Nation" often don't like him doing it-
She is being buried alive by her own Bothers and Uncles.
Nation-Description of nation - American Heritage® Dictionary
NOUN: 1a. A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country. b. The territory occupied by such a group of people: All across the nation, people are voting their representatives out. nationhood,c referring to people or a person in a country
The definition of a nation can also include a group of people with a common belief
Speaking to a group or talking about in any given country---The president spoke to the nation about the new tax (who did he really talk to-certainly not everyone)
The term Nation can be used in the manner above. And many other ways.
nation remains somewhat vague term, in that there is generally no strict definition -merriam-webster
I'd worry more about what they do that is wrong and calling it out and telling all there--doesn't matter if it's Cultural, Religious, Political--it's just wrong. And someone has to address this Nation Or Country if you like and say so. As far as I know the Catholics haven't buried alive anyone in the last 200 years. And I call out their wrong (like molestation) too as a group even though I am one too.
And I do watch my backyard as much as my brothers and sisters all over--shouldn't we all?
Here a friend sent me this who lives there--he often speaks out against his" Nation"
ReplyDeletePeople of his "Nation" often don't like him doing it-
She is being buried alive by her own Bothers and Uncles.
Nation-Description of nation - American Heritage® Dictionary
NOUN: 1a. A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country. b. The territory occupied by such a group of people: All across the nation, people are voting their representatives out. nationhood,c referring to people or a person in a country
The definition of a nation can also include a group of people with a common belief
Speaking to a group or talking about in any given country---The president spoke to the nation about the new tax (who did he really talk to-certainly not everyone)
The term Nation can be used in the manner above. And many other ways.
nation remains somewhat vague term, in that there is generally no strict definition -merriam-webster
I'd worry more about what they do that is wrong and calling it out and telling all there--doesn't matter if it's Cultural, Religious, Political--it's just wrong. And someone has to address this Nation Or Country if you like and say so. As far as I know the Catholics haven't buried alive anyone in the last 200 years. And I call out their wrong (like molestation) too as a group even though I am one too.
And I do watch my backyard as much as my brothers and sisters all over--shouldn't we all?
Here a friend sent me this who lives there--he often speaks out against his" Nation"
ReplyDeletePeople of his "Nation" often don't like him doing it-
She is being buried alive by her own Bothers and Uncles. --correction this is just a visual of what it is like-as pointed out
Nation-Description of nation - American Heritage® Dictionary
NOUN: 1a. A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country. b. The territory occupied by such a group of people: All across the nation, people are voting their representatives out. nationhood,c referring to people or a person in a country
The definition of a nation can also include a group of people with a common belief
Speaking to a group or talking about in any given country---The president spoke to the nation about the new tax (who did he really talk to-certainly not everyone)
The term Nation can be used in the manner above. And many other ways.
nation remains somewhat vague term, in that there is generally no strict definition -merriam-webster
I'd worry more about what they do that is wrong and calling it out and telling all there--doesn't matter if it's Cultural, Religious, Political--it's just wrong. And someone has to address this Nation Or Country if you like and say so. As far as I know the Catholics haven't buried alive anyone in the last 200 years. And I call out their wrong (like molestation) too as a group even though I am one too.
And I do watch my backyard as much as my brothers and sisters all over--shouldn't we all?
Here a friend sent me this who lives there--he often speaks out against his" Nation"
ReplyDeletePeople of his "Nation" often don't like him doing it-
She is being buried alive by her own Bothers and Uncles.
Nation-Description of nation - American Heritage® Dictionary
NOUN: 1a. A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country. b. The territory occupied by such a group of people: All across the nation, people are voting their representatives out. nationhood,c referring to people or a person in a country
The definition of a nation can also include a group of people with a common belief
Speaking to a group or talking about in any given country---The president spoke to the nation about the new tax (who did he really talk to-certainly not everyone)
The term Nation can be used in the manner above. And many other ways.
nation remains somewhat vague term, in that there is generally no strict definition -merriam-webster
I'd worry more about what they do that is wrong and calling it out and telling all there--doesn't matter if it's Cultural, Religious, Political--it's just wrong. And someone has to address this Nation Or Country if you like and say so. As far as I know the Catholics haven't buried alive anyone in the last 200 years. And I call out their wrong (like molestation) too as a group even though I am one too.
And I do watch my backyard as much as my brothers and sisters all over--shouldn't we all?
There are two sides here.
ReplyDeleteWhen will we put an end to sides and practice brotherly love? We are all brothers or at least cousins. :-)
This is a well known photograph used in campaigns to stop the lawful stonning of people under the law in Iran. It was first seen in the media in about 2007. This is so well documented I can't be bothered to leave the links. The picture is so well known I remember signing a 'stop the stonning' petition headed by this same photograph. Don't you people understand that by spreading half truths and lies you damage legitimate protests for the end of real (as opposed to imagined) atrocities. If you google ''stopstonning'' you will find dozens of reports using this photograph and all tell the same story.
ReplyDeleteyou tell lies
1. this is a stoning not someone being buried alive
2. this comes from Iran not from Palestine
3. no one 'sent' you this it is all over the internet
this statement is untrue.''Here a friend sent me this who lives there--
And before you rant about me approving these things.............read what I have written, I signed the petition headed by this photograph to stop the stoning.
ALL I AM ASKING IS THAT PEOPLE CHECK THEIR FACTS AND DON'T POST MIS-INFORMATION.
you still don't get it...............you can post as many genuine videos, pictures, articles or any thing else you can find...............If they are genuine and not madE up I'll not argue.
ReplyDeleteBUT NO AMOUNT OF GENUINE VIDEOS ETC WILL STOP THIS STORY BEING A MALICIOUS LIE AND THAT IS WHAT I OBJECT TO.
Thank you Frank, I appreciate you saying this , especially when I know how reluctant you are to participate in political debate.
ReplyDeleteHi Vickie, nice to have you here, and yes this is what has been happening, some people see the whole of Islam as 'the enemy' and will stop at nothing to discredit, mock, ridicule and spreat hate against them regardless of the truth of any given situation. People stop questioning is the tag 'islam' is attached, see the tag and know its evil seems to be their motto.
ReplyDeleteI have my Arabic friend in MSN and he watching the video and he laughed that people would actually beleive these children are the brides .
ReplyDeleteThe girls are like he said " mascots before a football match. Flower girls . he said at Palestinian Weddings often the women and men
are in different halls - but children can go between the men and women freely to bring joy and happiness."
My friend is Egyptian and as he is at work cannot do a word for word translation so I will ask other Arabic speakers on Multiply to come in and confirm this ......
I beleive him cause he tells me when something is true even when I dont like it ... :)
but infanticide still exists in China , India , Taiwan
ReplyDeletea 1.7 million baby girls left to die every year in China ....
no one bothered about that ?
http://blondino01ontal9.multiply.com/journal/item/135
ReplyDeleteyes its very very true ... endless vidoes with completely bogus translations
Patrick..............I assume this means that you now accept this particular story is NOTreal!! I assume you now accept I am right about this?? That's ok, no apology needed, we all make mistakes
ReplyDeletethanks Bennett.............sadly many people DO use these incidents of child abuse as evidence to claim the whole of the catholic church is corrupt, Same sort of thing, diferent religion.
ReplyDeletehttp://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:dcc9d723-8046-4857-b618-5c1135ba6417
ReplyDeleteIslamophobia. Ignorance Or Propaganda
The party is for 450 grooms, the brides are elsewhere, some among the 5,000 or so guests. It's the way things are done here, Personally I'm for the mixing of the sexes, but I'm not about to argue, I'm outnumbered.
Up on the stage there's music and dancing. Everyone's having a good time, even me, although the Hamas robocops are making me a little nervous. Sure Hamas have cold blooded killers among them, sure they support the murder of children in Israel,sure they are cracking down on women's rights, but many of their supporters are just ordinary people. And they need a break.
The men and women are sitting, Most ignore the speeches, some even ignore the prayers. Then the fireworks
explode, the cheering begins, and in march the Hamas scouts, bashing drums, looking every inch the future Hamas fighters many will be. Then the grooms, aged about 18 to about 28. They are holding hands with their young nieces and cousins, little girls aged from about 3 to 8, made up to the nines, wearing white wedding dresses.
Up they all go to the stage, the cheering and music grows ever louder. The girls were having the time of their lives, but, getting a little bored after a while, came down off the stage to dance with each other and play games.
Our report on this put it into context saying that it took place just a mile from the Israeli border and was a message from Hamas about its strength confidence and future fighters. Oh and that the brides were elsewhere. Pretty straightforward.
It never struck me for a moment that the little girls might later be described in the bloggersphere as the brides! How naive I am.
Dozens, and I mean dozens, of websites took the video of the event and wrote lurid stories about Hamas mass paedophilia with headlines about '450 child brides', and endless copy about how disgusting this was, how it showed how depraved Islam is, et al, ad infinitum. Site after site jumped on the story, linking from one totally wrong load of rubbish to the next . I'll give credit to Tundra Tabloids who at least took down the video, but most sites just ploughed on regardless.
I spent a few hours visiting websites and leaving comments where I could. To little avail. Instead I received a steady stream of vitriol. The best response was on a site run by a Debbie Schlussel . The guy who posted it said he wasn't interested in the detail. The detail being the fact that the girls weren't the brides.
It showed how much some people want to believe nonsense like this, as it re-inforces their prejudices, always a comfortably fun thing to do. But Hamas, and the jihadists do enough terrible things without having to make things up about them. Most of the stuff I read was outright, unthinking, gleeful, Islamophobia from people who clearly knew nothing about Arab popular culture. It's as is they really beleive that because there are examples of child brides, it means all weddings are with child brides.
Some sites went so far as to complain that the mainstream media were complicit in paedophilia because they had reported the mass wedding but failed to mention that little girls were about to be raped that night. And so it went on, and on.
Perhaps I was making up the fact that the brides were elsewhere. It's possible. But who would you believe, the reporter who went to the event, or a desperately poor version of citizen journalist, sitting at home, making things up, not checking anything, and either unknowingly or deliberately, writing hysterical anti Islamic nonsense.
Your original premise was how could people be so willing to believe evils of Islam. Above there are 3 videos which are far more outrageous than child brides, and here's a fourth . So in answer to your question . . ..THESE VIDEOS ARE WHY . . . .and for good reason .. . . . But I really wonder if you'll actually view them.
ReplyDeleteIT'S OK................iiVE FOUND A GUARANTEED WAY TO GET RID OF THE IDIOTS AROUND HERE IN LESS THAN 6O SECONDS, CLICK THE LINK AND
ReplyDeletehttp://www.myit-media.de/the_end.html
SORRY..................DID I MISS SOMETHING?? , DOES ANY OF THIS CHANGE THE TRUTH (OR LACK OF) IN THE ORIGINAL STORY??
ReplyDeletethat picture is just an example --I have been there--it does happen still in this day
ReplyDeleteIt's Just wrong
and thank you
THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID
ReplyDeleteHere a friend sent me this who lives there--he often speaks out against his" Nation"
People of his "Nation" often don't like him doing it-
She is being buried alive by her own Bothers and Uncles.
You obviously lied, don't you understand that if you wish to fight opression and injustice you can't do it with lies, you need to get your facts righ, check every thing out, make sure your story is correct and stick to the facts. Once you try to embelish your beleif with untruths you lose credibility and so does your cause.
No it was sent to me
ReplyDeleteand that man that man is real--I will see of I can get you a link by mail-- so you may talk to someone from there. The picture is a visual as you said
Do bad things happen r? You bet. Do people sometimes misbehave? Sure. Does this compare with the atrocities that were the policy of some of these countries for the last fifty years-and still are? the captivity by the Muslims who tortured and beheaded Daniel Pearl in Pakistan, or the Muslims who tortured and murdered Marine Lt. Col.. William Higgins in Lebanon, or the Muslims who ran the blood-spattered Al Qaeda torture rooms our troops found in Iraq , or the Muslims who cut off the heads of schoolgirls in Indonesia , because the girls were Christian..
the women who are stoned, buried and beheaded for anything
we are the world's watches now (that was a visual--wrong as it may be)
What is wrong is wrong and we need to talk out
Yes, propaganda can be displayed openly by the use of such emblems of hate as the swastika or subtly by the telling of a tasteless joke or the net. Its persuasive techniques are regularly applied by dictators, politicians, clergymen, advertisers, marketers, journalists, radio and TV personalities, publicists, and others who are interested in influencing thought and behavior.
Of course, propagandistic messages can be used to accomplish positive social ends, to help people understand what is going on as in campaigns to reduce drunk driving and in this case too/. But propaganda may also be used to promote hatred for ethnic or religious minorities or to entice people to buy cigarettes. "Every day we are bombarded with one persuasive communication after another," point out. Your right about that."These appeals persuade not through the give-and-take of argument and debate. For better or worse, ours is an age of propaganda.
There is truth and lies in propaganda. and your right we need to think it out. Seeing your picture I thought if what goes there with women-and that is a fact
Yes it would be better if we just had the truth all the way around. But even when we did--some don't face it. They don't face it. Many in fact. Visuals help.
The case of Germany and the Jews--we were told the truth right in the beginning but few believed until thousands were dead--thousands. We didn't jump in because we didn't see it--didn't visualize it. Even though it was told over and over.
Strange world we live in
I don't think people are condemning all by saying this country is wrong in some of its practices. They are saying they need changed. Just as we do.
And child/virgin scarifies from the past, cult killings, cultural killings marring of children . marrying, is just wrong no matter where it is done. And it should be everyone's business. No matter what propaganda is put out--we need to look closely at it--to see the truth in it. For better or worse, ours is an age of propaganda
Perhaps my 'reluctance' should be clarified on my own site. That reluctance is about participating in debates on American politics with the uninformed and knee jerk reactionary factions. I don't suffer ignorance very well, I get quite frustrated and angry and once I get started, I take no prisoners. I'm here for social networking, not anti-social networking. I avoid doing blogs on the three subjects of American politics, religion and sports teams, there is no quicker way to stir up people than to voice an opinion opposed to their beliefs and preferences on one of those issues.
ReplyDeleteI don't see your post here as necessarily political. I see it more as a statement that "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem".
I firmly believe that people should research issues before they support or condemn them and should fully understand what they are talking about, before running off at the mouth.
Simply said, "engage brain, before putting mouth in gear."
been where ?
ReplyDeleteIran ? cos the picture is not Palestine .
All Arabs are not Muslim.
All Muslims are not Arab , in fact only 18% if Muslims
are Arabs the other 88% are made up of many ethnicities including Chinese. Turks .S E Asians . Europeans . Pakistanis . iranians .
Most populous Muslim country is Indonesia .
There is no " Nation "
oh do I know how you feel.................i'm struggling :-))
ReplyDeleteAnd if by American politics you mean Party politics, I understand what you mean there too. I don't see the point in arguing party politics, but If it's out there and it's aim is to misinform, mislead, incite hatred, encourage intolerance or otherwise make the world a bigger mess than it already is, I will probably say so. I don't cope with lies very well. thanks for your participation.
I told her that., I also told her its an anti stonning campaign picture from Iran thats a few years old...................but she says she thinks its ok to use it as an example ??
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteOk my friend is watching the Micky Mouse Video right now
and he told all his work mates about the ridiculous
Hamas - Children video and how people were fooled ...
Tim Marshall of Sky News attended the wedding in Gaza . shame he did not take a better video :)
ReplyDeleteIt showed how much some people want to
believe nonsense like this, as it re-inforces
their prejudices, always a comfortably fun thing to do
http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:dcc9d723-8046-4857-b618-5c1135ba6417
Tim Marshall is a leading authority on foreign affairs, and has reported from 30 countries in Europe, Africa, Asia, the Middle East and North America.Tim has covered the conflicts in Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon. In 2007, he led reporting for Sky's Inside Iraq week, marking the fourth anniversary of the Gulf War. In August 2005, he charted the Israeli pull out from Gaza and reported from the front line during the conflict in Afghanistan. Tim reported extensively on the volatile situation in Pakistan both before and after Benazhir Bhutto's assassination. His interview with Bhutto ahead of her return to Pakistan from exile was a world exclusive.Tim now has one of the fastest growing blogs and podcasts on the web - Foreign Matters at www.sky.com/news Tim has previously been Diplomatic Correspondent, Middle East Correspondent and Europe Correspondent for the channel before being made Foreign Affairs Editor.In 2004 Tim was a finalist in the RTS News Event category for his Iraq War coverage
Yep because your original entry asked - "Are you all so ready to believe any possible evil thrown at you provided it has the tag ‘’Islam’’ posted next to it??"
ReplyDeleteAnd with everything from beheadings to state-run TV broadcasting hatred towards all who are not Muslim, there'd be no problem believing something that was far less provocative .
Do you even know what percentage of muslims sympathize with or agree with suicide bombings ?
Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
ReplyDeleteThis page focuses on condemnations of the 9/11 terrorist attacks and other terrorist incidents since then as well as of terrorism in general. It is not a complete listing of all condemnations written or spoken by Muslims but is intended to provide a representative sample.
It has often been claimed in the media that Muslims are "silent" and do not condemn terrorism. This page is intended to refute that claim. Muslims have not been silent. Not even close. See also How American Muslims Really Responded to September 11 for more information about the Muslim response to 9/11. And another listing is at Statements Against Terror. Also Muslim Voices Against Terrorism. Related commentary at Friedman Wrong About Muslims Again , by Juan Cole and The Myth of Muslim Condemnation of Terror by Ali Eteraz.
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
many many links to Muslims agains Terrorism
To: The Whole World
ReplyDeleteWe, the Muslims, are deeply saddened by the horrific attacks in Mumbai, India and we offer our deep condolence to the affected families.
We, true followers of Islam, condemn all acts of innocent killing. We are tired of misguided individuals using name of our religion for their
own political or who-knows-what ambitions. These criminals should be brought to Justice.
*Any act of harming or killing innocent People is totally against what Islam stands for, no matter who is responsible.
...if someone kills another person, it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind... (Qur'an, 5:32)
*Islam teaches us to be good to Neighbors -
.. Be good to your parents and relatives and to orphans and the very poor, and to neighbors who are related to you and neighbors who are not related to you, and to companions and travelers and your slaves. Allah does not love anyone vain or boastful. (Qur'an, 4:36)
*Islam teaches us to be “Just” and we believe in being “Just”
O You who believe! Show integrity for the sake of Allah, bearing witness with justice. Do not let hatred of a people incite you into not being just. Be just. That is closer to faith. and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Aware of what you do. (Qur'an, 5:8)
*Islam teaches us not to cause trouble on the Planet and we believe that those who are causing trouble are misguided
When they are told, "Do not cause mischief on the earth," they say, "We are reformers." Unquestionably, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realize (it) not. . (Qur'an, 2:11-12)
We urge everyone, including the media and the political leadership, not to help these terrorists in their distorted mission by associating their heinous acts to Islam.
http://www.petitiononline.com/muslim9/petition.html
maybe we should lighten up a little, maybe what we need is a little humour ....................:-))
ReplyDeletehttp://forgetmenot525.multiply.com/journal/item/377/When_all_else_fails..................try_a_little_humour_
Small number considering there are 1.4 Billion muslims and in some countries over 50% support or sympathize with suicide bombings .. .. . Worldwide compilation of polls of just muslims puts the number at over 40%. . . .40% = over 500,000,000.
ReplyDelete15% said they actively participate with violent murders .. . .15% = way over 100,000,000
So right there we've got well over 700,000,000 dangerous muslims .
and we have only your word to support these figures do we ???
ReplyDeleteWASHINGTON - Those who think that Muslim countries and pro-terrorist attitudes go hand-in-hand might be shocked by new polling research: Americans are more approving of terrorist attacks against civilians than any major Muslim country except for Nigeria.
The survey, conducted in December 2006 by the University of Maryland's prestigious Program on International Public Attitudes, shows that only 46 percent of Americans think that "bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians" are "never justified," while 24 percent believe these attacks are "often or sometimes justified."
Contrast those numbers with 2006 polling results from the world's most-populous Muslim countries – Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Terror Free Tomorrow, the organization I lead, found that 74 percent of respondents in Indonesia agreed that terrorist attacks are "never justified"; in Pakistan, that figure was 86 percent; in Bangladesh, 81 percent.
Do these findings mean that Americans are closet terrorist sympathizers
Hardly. Yet, far too often, Americans and other Westerners seem willing to draw that conclusion about Muslims. Public opinion surveys in the United States and Europe show that nearly half of Westerners associate Islam with violence and Muslims with terrorists. Given the many radicals who commit violence in the name of Islam around the world, that's an understandable polling result.
But these stereotypes, affirmed by simplistic media coverage and many radicals themselves, are not supported by the facts – and they are detrimental to the war on terror. When the West wrongly attributes radical views to all of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims, it perpetuates a myth that has the very real effect of marginalizing critical allies in the war on terror.
Indeed, the far-too-frequent stereotyping of Muslims serves only to reinforce the radical appeal of the small minority of Muslims who peddle hatred of the West and others as authentic religious practice
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0223/p09s01-coop.html
Here is a little video i made a long time ago.notice the image with the guy with a gun to his head.This man was an ex-muslim,found me here at Multiply and befriended me.This man was so full of shame for being in islam and tormented himself for the things he did while he was a muslim that he could not take it anymore.His blog was devoted to putting muhammad on trial and that mixed with him leaving islam brought him nothing but death threats,which you can rest assured would be accompanied by plenty of torture first.This mans last message to me was that he was done living because he couldn't take it anymore.There is no-one in this blog or any other blog that can convince me of anything good that comes from islam.The fact that grown men do molest children is just that A FACT.nothing you can say or do can change that aside from allowing islam to leave this world.Islam condones rape and murder of women ,even if a man merely suspects she has done something to dishonor him.Again this is a fact.
ReplyDeleteWanna know where to find the truth? Look at islamic law called SHARIA LAW.here you find the very laws that protect plainly child molestation,rape and murder of women,and murder of anyone non -muslim.
Hey as far as the 450 grown men marrying the children,sure it can be something twisted out of proportion.But why no images of the true brides?Has anyone that did the "research" on that video find any images of them?
What use is a law,sharia law, that states as far as child brides.....you may not penetrate them,you may fondle them,they may fondle you.Plus there is something called thigh sex the man can have with her.But hey the law does protect the child IF the man so chooses to have inter-coarse with her anyway and that law states that if he hurts her then he is monetarily responsible for her for the rest of her life.
Well thank God for that,lets just hope he doesn't merely suspect her of dishonoring him when she becomes a burden and he is allowed to put her down like an animal.
Let me tell you that there are more scholars on the subject of islam than just muslims alone.Just because a muslim says you cannot fully understand islam unless you are a muslim doesn't mean squat.In fact they say that because we are considered SUB-HUMAN until we do accept islam which leaves them thinking they are better than infidels,holier,smarter......
the truth is their farce of a God,allah and their piece of crap lunatic of a "perfect prophet" gave them nothing by which to live but the sword,the very sword they not only cut themselves down with,they kill plenty of each other off,but others must strike them down with the sword in defense.
I only hope some have invested as many years as i have to this subject and farce of a political ideal hiding behind the shield of religion,if you have then you can't possibly miss the truth.
Another fun fact about islam is it is only a fast growing religion because each male is allowed 4 wives,not to mention countless sex slaves,which would give this loser how many children?Add the amount of wives and children with absolutely NO CHOICE but to be muslims and well hey look at that it is a fast growing religion.
Islam is a ball and chain on the world,hands out for food and just about everything else because their wonderful religion offers them nothing of a future,nothing but yet again more women and sex.Islam has nothing but what it has taken from others.Lets all condemn little old Israel for invading Palestine.I have an idea....islam give back all the land it stole and Israel give back Israel.Another fun fact,islam would have nothing and Israel would still be Israel.
If nobody likes what i have said here then get in line for the Dar's a hater hate club.Go ahead and hit my site with complaints of it being a hate site.I have weathered it all ,why? Because there is nothing hateful said in there except what is said by islam.
You cannot avoid civilian casualties when fighting islam because they hide amongst women and children.To blame a nation that spends billions on weaponry in avoiding such things is erronous.
ReplyDeleteYou people talk a good game.The problem is you are not seeing where the problem truly lies with islam and the whole wars with it.You fail to see how islam educates it's children.I am always appaled at how easily the children are forgotten when the blame game arises.
These kids are taught they are better than anyone else.they are taught that Jews are from apes and pigs and to be hated.They are taught to love death more than life for goodness sakes.I do not say nor think all muslims are bad people and that is said all over my blog.I am a man and i can admit things i stand tall in saying and admitting I HATE ISLAM.What is islam,is it a race,a person?Islam is an ideology politcal and religous.It is one that DOES dictate every aspect of ones life.
Imagine being born into an ideology that from birth every aspect of your life is told to you.Good grief boys and girls are segregated and they don't even know how to act around eachother except for when they get horny,then sadly that is when people die,mainly women,who shoulder the blame for herself and the male.
People harp and rant about the Wests PAST as far as slavery,yet islamic slavery goes on and on and has for 1400 yrs yet people seem to think thats okay.
Some see it as impossible or not likely that there were 450 little girls wedded into child molestation and i cringe with disbelief any could still be so unknowing of the truth.
One last thing i have to say.Find yourselves some ex-muslims and see exactly what the truth is about islam.They are very brave people who live with the threat of assasination on a daily basis.Doesn't that say something to you?
ReplyDeleteI have a friend (woman) who escaped the terrible oppression in Iran . Incredible stories of what they do to women there . . . . . . ..that's why I find it vitally important to educate this blog author and maybe a respondent or two.
ReplyDeleteYour entries were very effective descriptions .
It speaks volumes to me ....
ReplyDeleteI began this in order to say, not every thing is what it seems, sometimes we are presented with ''deliberately provocative propaganda'', sometimes governments, people, leaders, members of one particular faction, lots of different groups, all want to misinform us, they want to incite and increase hatred. I believe it's wrong to paint an entire religion, race, country or people, as evil or bad, it's illogical to believe that if SOME people from a particular group commit atrocities, they all do it. How does this make any reasoned sense at all?? You need to be blind deaf dumb and stupid to truly believe all fault and all evil lies in one corner..............it plainly doesn't. If we close our minds to the wrong doing of those we support AND take every opportunity to exaggerate the wrong doing of those we consider 'the enemy' all we are doing is fanning the flames of hate, we increase and extend the suffering of not only those we consider 'the enemy' but also those we think of as our friends. It's just not possible to build a better world or to bring about peace any where under any circumstance once our hearts and minds are closed to others and full of hate.
ReplyDeleteSome of you have left the most awful videos here, what do you expect to prove?? We all know in areas of conflict and in wars terrible things happen and people are so immersed in hate and hurt they do and say truly awful things. If you believe atrocities are only committed by one side in any conflict you are deluded, history shows this has rarely been the case in any conflict.
I took me a few minutes to find dozens of video clips on youtube showing war crimes and atrocities committed by the Israeli army, I'm not going to show them because as I said before, they prove nothing. In times of conflict atrocities happen, which is why we should be doing all we can all of the time to stop spreading hate, to stop spreading lies, to stop being deliberately provocative and to be open minded, If you care to broaden your mind just a little, this is the link to a lengthy report on Israeli War Crimes, the report is filmed by the BBC and reported by The Guardian newspaper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLZgNy46aTQ
It doesn't make sense.
ReplyDeletebut some countries those idiocies went (and do go) beyond the line of all human decency and than we do need to all step up and say enough! . Even if we are not perfect. Just as we had to in Germany. Of course it wasn't all the people but as a Nation we had to stop what they were doing. even though we had our own ills--there is such a thing as "beyond the line of all others" someone has to point out things. As unpleasant as it was for many living in Germany who didn't like what was happening too. But they were not as in big on denial as many are today. They didn't call themselves peaceful people than. So came World War. To help millions who were being bullied. In that it makes sense--in answer to your question
Not all hated the race just because they were angry at Gernany at the time neither. We need to understand that. Some did -some didn't. But it was a way to ID them as a Nation and calling out the wrong done there. How is that different now?
""It's just not possible to build a better world or to bring about peace any where under any circumstance once our hearts and minds are closed to others and full of hate."" Very true. But we should hate what is bad--and see it for what it is--- ever moving our hearts to good
If I had a willful bad child--doesn't mean I hate the child to correct them. And one doesn't have to be perfect to do that.
The world has always been brutal. It has always ruined the lives of soldiers (many who suffer all their lives--we do feel for them) and has always brought suffering to civilians. But in recent years, war and propaganda has changed its face. In what way?
Today's wars are mainly wars between opposing groups of citizens of the same country. Or neighboring. And these wars often last longer, leave the population more traumatized, and destroy countries more thoroughly than wars fought between nations--the world wars.. These wars are cruel, bloody operations that result in thousands of deaths, sexual assaults, forced exile and, in the most extreme cases, genocide, Indeed, when atrocities are committed by neighbor against neighbor, the wounds may take centuries to heal.
The pain and destruction caused by such hostilities are devastating. And true people are going to act out more. They are outraged--and this is the "age of rage" many writers say. We have to take that into consideration.
Many children in these countries where all these terrible things going on it has become a way of life for them, they are growing up without ever having known peace. But they hear the boast that they are peaceful. They live in a world where schools have been destroyed and where dialogue takes place through the mouths of guns
You say-we can all of the time to stop spreading hate, to stop spreading lies, to stop being deliberately provocative and to be open minded. Yes we should be--and we need to face everything. What fuels the fires of such cruel things? Ethnic and tribal hatred, religious differences, injustice (and that is a big part), and political turmoil are all significant factors. Another root cause is greed, pride and selfishness—greed for power and greed for money. Pride that is undeserved, selfishness to the point we don't want our own world rocked-leave our own backyard or looked bad even though it is. Political leaders, often motivated by these, stir up the hatred and wrongful pride that fuels the fighting.
To uproot these destructive feelings, people need to change the way they think.
Of course we are going to see more propaganda--but it's coming from both sides. And each has some horrible truths to it. And we have to sort it out. By looking at it all. Not blind either way. And making wise decisions
There are different levels to wrong and evil.
Best wishes on your post--hopefully ALL learned something
Thinking about this during the night, found upon arriving the latest two comments which pretty well express what I would want to say.
ReplyDeleteThe message from our Creator given through His prophets is always one of be good, love one another. Religion and politics then step in with their power-hungry claws and also our own hearts seeking justification for what we do, how we are. We have work to do, the change must be made within each one of us. If we could stop lying, a major percentage of the job would be done.
I must say, it bothers me that the words islam and muslim are used to indicate these things spoken of by previous commenters as these actions, ways of being, are not representative of what the Qur'an says. But there are examples of that, I suppose, with all religions.
God doesn't have a religion. :-)
Thanks, from the whole of your response these few words seem to go to the heart of what I have been trying to say. If the human race is to survive we do need to change the way we think, about so many things but mostly we need to learn not to be so gullible and keep an enquiring mind and not see things as black and white. Those with minds that hate can turn that hate toward anything or anyone.
ReplyDeleteActually that is the way I feel, I tend not to quote from any particular religion because, like you said, you can read the Qur'an and things we find abhorrent but you could equally read from any other religious source and find things that are awful. Thanks for the comments.
ReplyDeleteI have asked you before but you seem to have forgotton to leave the links to the ''infamous mass child weddings which have been documented over and over again?? I really would appreciate these links, I like to be sure of my facts, thanks
ReplyDeleteAre you actually talking about Palestine?? maybe you didn't realise Palestine is what we are talking about. You talk about beheadings and being buried alive and all sort of things, are you saying the Palestinians do this?? I'm sorry but I found your comments quite difficult to follow in places. You say you have been 'there' .... WHERE have you been?? to Palestine because that is what we are talking about. Maybe you should clarify your answer a little, i would like to understand what you mean and what your contribution re Palestine is
ReplyDeleteI have been told that you don't feel that I have given you the information about my sources you think I should give you, I shall add this, and that will most likely be my final comment to this discussion. As I've said before there are differing opinions about who married whom in Gaza. Based on general knowledge of the Islamic traditions when it comes to child marriages, subjection of women and femicide I believe in interpreting this incident as a marriage of very young girls/children to grown men. Nothing I've read by you have changed that conviction, but - like your conviction - it's based on an interpretation.
ReplyDeleteThe two inspirational links underneath this I already gave you. This time I also bring two quotes that should interest you and which ought to be the next target for your investigations:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/world/middleeast/31gaza.html?_r=2 =
"The night before the mass wedding party, he said, his wife shared with him her ultimate wish: to carry out a joint suicide attack against Israel."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1102703.html =
"... demographics play a role in the conflict between us and the Zionists ..."
...................................................
As to specific links to Muslim weddings I take for granted that you, being such a conscientious researcher, already have lots and lots. Otherwise you can't have dug very deep into this subject. However, I can tell you that I've found some information in Wikipedia, Danish research reports like e.g. "Islam i flammer" (2006) by David Trads, many, many links to new and older media reports like e.g.:
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f38/mass-wedding-saudi-style-13638/
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/07/hamas-sponsors-mass-wedding-for-little.html
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/07/hamas-sponsors-mass-wedding-for-little.html
http://english.chinatibetnews.com/TibetdDiscovery/2009-06/16/content_260271.htm
http://www.caloocancity.gov.ph/content.aspx?sectionid=479
http://english.cctv.com/20090617/101458.shtml
http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=44723
Some of these are based on interpretations, others simply report facts.
comparing like with like in India.
ReplyDeletesadly India has a huge child bride problem and the vast majoroty of the population is hindu 80%
Bararola, India - When Rekha Kalindi was nearing age 12, her parents told her they were planning to marry her off. Rekha's response would reverberate all the way up to the president of India: "No."
Nearly half of all Indian females get married before turning the legal minimum age of 18. The requirement has been in place for more than three decades, but centuries of custom don't change overnight – and that's especially true in Bararola, a land carved up into small farm plots and crisscrossed by dirt paths that takes at least a day's journey to reach from Calcutta. But even here, some people are taking a stand.
HUSBAND AND WIFE: Eight-year-old Mangilal, left, and his bride Mangi, 7, came out of a temple after their wedding in Rajgarh, India,
PRAKASH HATVALNE/AP
Ihttp://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0424/p06s07-wosc.html
http://sikhhealth.blogspot.com/2009/03/child-marriages-in-india.html
Sikh Child Marriages in India
SEE THE ANSWER I HAVE JUST GIVEN AND IT DOES LOOK AT ALL LINKS YOU LEFT.
ReplyDelete49 countries in the world have child marriages ....
ReplyDeletehttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article3948867.ece
More than 90 per cent of the 77 million people in Ethiopia live in rural areas. The Orthodox Church has a massive influence over the communities. While the Christian hierarchy claims to want an end to child marriages, its priests - there are half a million in the country - still carry them out. “Most of these priests are also carpenters and farmers,” the Church's head, His Holiness Abune Paulos said. “It will take time for the message to filter down that they must not be a part of this tradition.”
the world should be caring about ALL and not just chosing the ones that suit their progandas
I've just checked that out, I think people are going to find it difficult to believe that these people ar practising christians and the wedding ceremonies are carried out by ordained christian priests. This is just another example of what happens to people when they live in the worst possible poverty.
ReplyDeleteI THINK EC FORGOT WHERE TO FIND THIS BLOG, SHE MISTAKENLY LEFT THIS IN THE GUEST BOOK.
ReplyDeleteetpsc wrote today at 2:08 PM
Once and for all - and this is final - as I have no intention of reading more of what you may try to pass off as insight. At least I have the decency to say that my belief in the mass wedding of very young girls is the same as your disbelief: An interpretation of the material put forward over and over. You keep harping on "a link" which probably exists, perhaps with UN, perhaps with the press, but which is not the issue here.
The issue is: That the marrying off of very young girls, some as young as 6-9 years old, is an infamous habit within the Muslim tradition. If you deny that you're either extremely ignorant or a liar. Based on what I've seen and read, e.g. in some of the material I gave you links to and which you haven't even browsed (or understood? is that the real problem?) I believe in the INTERPRETATION of the Gaza-incident: Yes, there may have been fewer or more young brides than has been estimated by those who gave a very welcome interpretation of the incident, but the infamous tradition itself has been documented over and over again, and that's what I'm writing. The mass aspect is only interesting for one reason: It's a tool for Hamas who dreams high dreams of a demographic miracle of little Muslims everywhere.
I give you a few more links about child marriages and the attempts by UN to curb or preferably stop them. This I do to give you the chance of furnishing your understanding of this material: If there are laws against this unspeakable habit then it's because 1) it exists (It's proven), 2) the fact that it exists should make it easier for you to understand both interpretations of the Gaza-incident.
http://www.wluml.org/english/newsfulltxt.shtml?cmd[157]=x-157-563991
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=46022
http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/egm/vaw_legislation_2009
/Expert%20Paper%20EGMGPLHP%20_Salma%20Ali_.pdf
http://www.unfpa.org/swp/2005/presskit/factsheets/facts_child_marriage.htm
I sometimes wonder if the human race will ever grow up and behave like an intelligent race. After reading many of the comments here, I think it's safe to say it won't be any time soon.
ReplyDeletethats ok. I take it you won't be supplying links to prove your claim to infamous mass child weddings then.
ReplyDeletemaybe I expect too much, I would like people to not only 'behave like an intelligent race''.............but to actually BE ONE.....:-))
ReplyDeletethe most recent links you have left all appear to be from Pakistan and not Palestine. The last link gives a rough global incidence of child brides, according to that information, it doesn't appear to happen in or around Palestine. None of the links you left appear to report of ''mass child weddings'', they all appear to be single weddings and as I said, none of them seem to be in or any where near Palestine. But thanks for the links any way, it made interesting reading. Also, I did note that none of those reports specified what religion the couples were.
ReplyDeletethe most recent links you have left all appear to be from Pakistan and not Palestine. The last link gives a rough global incidence of child brides, according to that information, it doesn't appear to happen in or around Palestine. None of the links you left appear to report of ''mass child weddings'', they all appear to be single weddings and as I said, none of them seem to be in or any where near Palestine. But thanks for the links any way, it made interesting reading. Also, I did note that none of those reports specified what religion the couples were.
ReplyDeleteLoretta, I already did that, but not with another information than you already have. Only interpret it like the part of the interpreters that I believe in. I can't see why I should be obliged to give you "links" (frankly, are you all there???) which others don't have. Like me, they have videos, writings, traditions and that adds up to the belief (based on interpretations) that recently there was a mass wedding of female children to grown-up men. But still, interpretations. Nothing you have said proves differently and all of it is based on interpretations.
ReplyDeleteAs I said before: Time will show who is right or closest to the truth, but I'm convinced that's me and certainly not you.
You already did what?? do you mean you have supplied proof of mass weddings of child brides in Palestine?? I HAVE checked ALL your links and ALL the information and there is NO mention any where of these many mass child bride weddings you are so convinced happen..............they simply are not there not on any of the links you send. There are reports of child brides but as far as I can see none of them are in or around Palestine, there are reports of mass weddings, but these are not reported as mass child weddings, just mass weddings, and these do happen in and around palestine, but NOTHING you have sent shows ANY mass child bride weddings ANYWHERE. And I really don't understand why you keep referring to things that happen in India, or Pakistan or Saudi or any where else really when we are talking about something that was supposed to happen in Palestine.
ReplyDeleteAnyway.............I have lost count of the number of times you have said ''this will be my last comment'' or words to that effect, I think you have said that at least twice and then come back...... you must like it here to come back so often.
Yes, by the very first links I gave you. They were based on interpretations by others as I told you. However, you discarded this information, if I'm not mistaken, "for being based on blogs" or something like that. To me this is a crazy notion and it must mean that your own blogs never are to be trusted - because they are blogs.
ReplyDeleteYes, that's the point, I believe in what has been stated by others before me. You, on the other hand, expect me to find some "links" that to you are the proof you need. I think that you are unable to read the information about child brides all over the Muslim world and not only Gaza and understand that there is a red thread in all this which is Islam.
I disagree--that thread would be culture.
ReplyDeleteThat culture is built upon The Qur'an = Islam.
ReplyDeleteThis is another good link = http://wholinkstome.com/phrase/child-marriage-islam
Under and around would be more like it than upon.
ReplyDeleteI've seen this before, the child comes from Yemin not Palestine, she was not part of a mass wedding and the wedding was declaired against the law
ReplyDeleteHow do you read "Information about child brides all over the Muslim world" as "she as part of a mass wedding ....."? Is that what I stated? I should no.
ReplyDeleteOnce again: You find a lot about child marriages, rape of children within "marriages", etc. by visiting some of those nice links I've given you. The mass wedding-links that you keep harping about you find in interpretations of the Gaza-incident. (Which I also have given you = interpretations, OK)
this is what you said...............quoted from your comment ..................all I have ever said is I would like to see your information and links on this , and so far you haven't supplied any of the links to what you call infamous mass child weddings documented over and over again. the only reference I can find to any mass child wedding is the one we are discussing which has been renounced by the original Sky reported who initially reported on this wedding. He has said he was there and the children were friends and relatives and the brides were all in another room. If you know of any more mass child weddings ...........where are they??
ReplyDeleteAs I believe in the Gaza-incident as one of these (Hamas-)mass weddings and several of the links speak of mass weddings I have furnished you with this information: That's what I build my interpretation on. I don't say that Muslims always have mass weddings, but I do say that child weddings are infamous and that they have been proven over and over again all over the Muslim world. That's what I'm saying. Mass weddings may even be a modern kind of wedding which didn't occur before now. That I don't know, but I do know that Muslims let very young girls marry, have sex "like Aisha". The incident in Gaza has been described by bloggers and others as one in several mass weddings, but also/mostly with grown-up, young women.
ReplyDeleteto say child weddings are infamous is a totally different thing to saying that mass child weddings are infamous and have been documented over and over again...............do I take it from this you have revised your original statement??
ReplyDeleteNo, I haven't revised anything, but I think that you've misread me. That may be my own fault, but what I say is: 1) child weddings are infamous = they are nothing but RAPE, 2) mass child weddings like the one in Gaza (which I still believe in) are infamous for the same reasons, 3) child weddings have been documented over and over and over, no doubt about it, and I'm not talking Gaza here, but large parts of the Muslim world as well as in European countries where the fathers have found loopholes for this continued infamy = e.g. in my own country, 4) As I believe in the child wedding-interpretation for Gaza I, as stated several times, of course also believe in what the various bloggers, journalists write about Hamas and these mass weddings.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't understand it now, there is nothing I can do about it. I, and several others, have tried to explain my blog entry and also the Muslim traditions and what's necessary is necessary, but I think I've done what I can do.
and in those os African Tribal Customes , The Hindu Religion , Some South American Countries mostly Guatamala & the Sikh Religion all links above .. not posting them all again
ReplyDeleteI didn't misread you, this is exactly word for word what you said
ReplyDelete''was of one of those infamous mass child weddings which has been documented over and over again''.
how can that be misread?? Like I said, I can't find any reports of mass child weddings except this one wedding in Palestine which according to the sky reporter who was there, was certainly NOT a mass child wedding. This one is the only one ever reported.
look back and you will see I have NEVER said there are no child weddings, of course there are, they happen all over the world in all different countries and in all different faiths. But, after reading link after link after link, I have found no reports of child weddings in Palestine and certainly no mass child weddings in Palestine (or any where else). And quite frankly..............if you are not talking about Palestine I don't see how it is relevant. The discussion never was about what happens in Saudi or Yemen or Pakistan...............we were talking about Palestine and all of these countries have very different cultures and practices.
Which brings me back to my original point, why jump to conclusions, why assume this is a mass wedding with child brides?? Now that we have established we can find no prior evidence of child brides in Palastine and we can find no prior evidence of mass child brides ANYWHERE prior to this report……………..why jump to these conclusions ??
THIS BLOG IS NOW CLOSED,
ReplyDeleteTHREE DAYS ON ONE THREAD IS ENOUGH.
ANY COMMENTS ADDED AFTER THIS NOTICE WILL BE DELETED
THANKS TO EVERY ONE WHO CONTRIBUTED
Yes there is. Look at your history and reference books. They call it the same
ReplyDeleteAre some Muslims bad? Yes. There is bad. in every religion, race, nationality and creed. No one is arguing that. Let's be honest shall we--not many follow your book to the T anymore than Christianity do theirs. So that doesn't cut ice.. If fact many are hypocrites when it comes down to it. That is in both books.
And as stated your group is far from sainthood. It has a stinky history. And actions mean more than bragging. Wherever Muslims have live, the outcome is always acts of terrorism and murder-that is their past history. Along with others. People have a right because of that history to be a bit leary. I'm cautious in bad known bad neighborhoods by all kinds of races. That is only smart if you know their history. Get off your high-horse and face some hard facts too about your so called people. That is as much as propaganda as the other.
I have nothing against most people but I face facts too. These Nations have been trouble for years and it isn't just because people hate Muslim. It's because as a Nation there have been massive worldwide acts of violence. What part of that don't you understand?
Perhaps if these "peace loving" Muslims would speak up more and condemn the actions of their so called brothers more people will be less leary. I didn't see Israel dancing in the streets at 9/11. And believe me their government and churches would have said something publicly.
Bad manners of some reflect badly on any group. And rightly so. Acting like people have no basis for these is just wrong.
It's okay to defend the good but don't be so pious as to overlook all the bad.
Discriminatory acts are in everyday life — in shops, schools, churches and at work -here. To the old, young whatever. Not right but not everyone is whining as much as many Muslims when something bad that is being done by them is shown. Why don't they accept that part more? Because they don't want too?
I don't like a lot of things we do here but I do look at the bad we do and don't try to act like that isn't true when it is. That gets us nowhere
And I been to most countries in the East--so what--what is with that comment?
That guy brought up some good points--what he was showing happens in many places all around there--a visual. That is not propaganda that is what happens, Deal with it-quit picking on words
Why are they digging and putting her in than? It's more than stoning. Enlarge it-look at her face she is still alive. Where are the stones?
ReplyDeleteAnd it happens all over in those countries not just one.
Those facts are available--I don't do people's homework for them. Nor so I believe most of what's on web. For everything in u-tube there is something to dispute it. All seem to have some truth and lies to it often. People often slant things to how they would like it.
Perhaps you are just looking just on one -side more because you feel strong on some things? We all do on somethings.
But the fact is--and he has got that right--bad things are coming out of these Nations there and people better start paying attention. Where there is much smoke there is fire. And it's not a campfire
Properagada is telling people how to think--not showing both sides. It's good people showed both sides here--let people think for themselves if they can. Where was your other side again so people can see both?
I am truly surprise to see how some people could be so ignorant .
ReplyDeleteI had sworn I wouldn't wate more time on this, but one can't always keep one's promises: YOU were talking of what went on in Palestine, as you may see from the links and from my statements I wasn't. I'm talking of a tradition based on Islam which is the base of what happened in Gaza, brought forth by Hamas and the money tank they seem to have.
ReplyDeleteYou keep asking me for a link which you have received concerning the Gaza incident. I've told you over and over again that I see nothing but interpretations of a situation and this was the first one. I think I should have brought it as a quote, because that's the base for most references to Gaza which actually hasn't interested me much until now when I've learnt this about Hamas: They are rich, they host mass weddings and gloat at them.
Once and for all, 1) the link which you keep asking for is already in your possession with the description of this surprising event. 2) As I've stressed over and over again in circumstantial cases you only have circumstantial evidence. That gives one option, and one only: To interpret. That means to take a look of everything there is, and as this case to me is about hideous Muslim traditions of e.g. pedophilia, femicide and the general subjection of women that's what relevant for my point of view so that's what you've received numerous links for which you don't seem to understand. That's why I hold this "discussion" to be a waste of time. I've been justified in asking "are you all there" because all you have is this "give me the link, give me the link" and in my opinion I've already done so as well as giving you even more.
As you may know, I've put my blog entry into a "dormant" position. I still believe that Hamas paid for a mass wedding of little girls to grown men and the blog will be reposted when I (hopefully) find out why the video was withdrawn by the man who shot it. Was it too revealing and was he threatened to do so? Now that's interesting not this "discussion".
If you don't want people continuing this discussion (and I wouldn't blame you) you can click on "edit" then go to the bottom of the page you get and uncheck the box that says "allow replies". xox
ReplyDeleteTHANKS BENNETT............will do
ReplyDeleteI so love the morons who defend the Israelis - and the Tinfoil Hat Brigade here at home. They're really entertaining, especially in an argument like this one (in a "let's-kick-a-three-legged-dog" kind of way).
ReplyDeleteHave you noticed that it's always "I-have-a-friend-who-has-a-friend", or something like that? Or, it's "I-saw-this-on-Youtube-so-it-has-to-be-true."
These are the same people who accept Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh as gospel; they're the ones who were all-but-fellating Orly Taitz' private-parts over her 'challenge' of Obama's citizenship (until she got punked by that "Kenyan Birth Certificate").
These people have wrapped themselves in the flag and carried the cross (just as Sinclair Lewis said they would, regarding the arrival of fascism in America).
At that point, unfortunately, it ceases to be funny.
We have a serious problem in America, and they're a good part of it.
My apologies on behalf of some of my countrymen. They're not bad people. They're just ignorant....
Yes, we do and they are an enormous part of it.
ReplyDeleteKan ya makan.....
ReplyDeleteIn a nursery, far, far away, ecec333 announced that the moon was made of green cheese. forgetmenot525 pointed out gently that the moon was not, in fact, made of green cheese at all, which greatly angered ecec333 who rushed off and returned armed with comic books, cartoons, and fragments of old myths and legends and declared that this was categorical proof that the moon was indeed made of green cheese. forgetmenot525 gently pointed out that comics, cartoons and fabricated accounts were not, in fact, regarded as reliable evidence by grown-ups, and in fact provided zero proof to support ecec333's claim that the moon was made of green cheese. Furious, ecec333 stormed off again and returned with a pile of newspaper cuttings and some other storybooks that were not actually about the moon at all. forgetmenot525 studied ecec333's collection of newspaper cuttings and said in a kind voice "But none of these articles actually say that the moon is made of green cheese at all, do they? They don't even mention green cheese anywhere!" ecec333 became increasingly enraged and began foot-stamping and screaming "I have showed you ALL the things that support my belief that the moon is made of green cheese and yet you deny it!" The other children watched, puzzled, as a pouting ecec333 began jeering "You must be stupid if you cannot see that the moon is made of green cheese after all the evidence I have shown you!" forgetmenot525 tried again. "But ecec333, cartoons and comics do not count as acceptable evidence, and your material about other planets has nothing to do with the moon (and indeed, makes no reference to green cheese either), while your own bundle of newspaper cuttings actually undermines your argument because nowhere in it is there any reference at all to green cheese". Eventually time came for all the little boys and girls to undertake their 'Science and research skills' examination, and everyone passed except poor ecec333, who wasted a great amount of time vainly trying to convince the examiners that the moon was made of green cheese, thereby demonstrating an abject failure to handle source materials, conduct proper research, or arrive at a rational conclusion based upon solid evidence and a rigorous examination of facts. So ecec333 had to stay in the nursery while the other children made their way happily into the real world and quickly forgot about the silly child who refused to grow up.
تهانينا ، يمكنك البحث عن الحقيقة ، جزاكم الله خيرا