Take what you are about to read in the context of my favorite saying;
‘’If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem’'
Hmmmmm where to start…………..
Consider this hypothetical situation. You are walking through the streets of the town where you live, suddenly you turn a corner and come across someone you don’t know. This person is loud and offensive; he is openly homophobic, possibly xenophobic and defiantly racist toward the Muslim community. He stands on the corner, addressing any one who passes with his own very special brand of hate. Gathered around him is a group of people all of whom are ‘egging him on’, some are whole heartedly agreeing with him, some join in the banter and some agree with him ‘’light heartedly’’. Then you notice two or three people in the crowd who are friends of yours. These friends are people you have known for a while and whose company you enjoy. You have conversed with them about paintings, or poems, and other such topics and suddenly, here they are, apparently agreeing with behavior and attitudes you find abhorrent.
What do you do??
Do you confront your friends?
Do you confront the speaker?
Will you continue to be friends with these people in the future?
If you believe as I do that injustice needs to be confronted, that not to confront injustice amounts to condoning and encouraging it, how then can you NOT speak out?
As I said at the beginning, this is a hypothetical situation with hypothetical questions, and hypothetical questions don’t have any definite answers……….how can we know??
But I THINK I would confront the speaker AND my friends. Judging by the way I have reacted to real (as opposed to hypothetical) situations in the past, I think I would find it very difficult to maintain the same relationship with these friends as I had before this incident.
Which brings me to the point of this seemingly pointless ramble.
The point is……………. This is more or less what happened to me yesterday, not out there in ‘real life’ but right here in Multiply. I was happily wandering around, reading bits and pieces of different things, (the equivalent of window shopping in a ‘real’ street), when I happened across something I found pretty offensive. And there in the comments boxes were some of my friends, gleefully joining in the banter, apparently condoning what was being said!!!
Did I leave a comment? No, I slipped away and said nothing.
Did I delete these ‘’friends’’? No, I had a conversation with a couple of them and decided to leave them on my friends list.
Was I wrong not to make a stand about this? I have no idea.
Does this mean online relationships operate on completely different ‘rules’ to ‘real life’ relationships? I didn’t think so, now I’m not so sure.
Or possibly I just think too much and am blowing this whole thing way out of proportion. Or perhaps this is a prime example of how we operate in different ways in our ‘virtual’ worlds of social networking etc to the way we operate in our ‘real’ world. The only thing I know for sure is that the whole incident has left a lot of questions in my mind and whole lot of thinking material.
Ps…………if we have already discussed this, it’s not personal, it’s just the ramblings of my mind late at night.
I was going to read just one more blog and then cook. And I came upon this one. So I shall cook, and think, and come back. I already have a pretty good idea of what I will say.
ReplyDeleteyour reply made me laugh...............what are you gong to cook??
ReplyDeleteTom is grilling small filets (I know but he loves red meat) and I am making steamed sugar snap peas (from frozen) and toasting some crusty rolls.
ReplyDeleteat least its grilled lean red meat................could be a lot worse, and your peas sound delicious
ReplyDeleteFirst, I might, myself, walk away and give myself time to think. As you have done. Then, I would possibly delete the composer of the offensive blog. I say possibly because I have one contact who post things that I find offensive, but there are other things s/he does that mitigate the blogs. I ignore them mostly. Back to the kitchen. Later.
ReplyDeletethe composer of the blog is not the problem.............he is not one of my contacts, I was just very shocked to find contacts of mine are also contacts of his and seem to agree with him.
ReplyDeletedon't you let them nice jucy peas get too soft.................................
ReplyDeleteThe world would be a very boring place if we all thought/reacted the same way. In this situation maybe some of your friends agreed with this person's attitude to a degree but not as loudly or rudely as the blogger. Discussing where your friends heads are in this situation is always a good place to start. Hopefully you and your friends can find a happy medium. If not, both worlds will be a bit darker. HUGS Dear Friend.
ReplyDeleteI guess it would all depend on subject and context, but as a general rule if I found friends to be taking part in and encouraging something I found offensive I'd be inclined to delete them. Of course, what each person finds offensive is highly subjective. If I did take that action I wouldn't feel inclined to give them an explanation of why I had deleted them, it's my decision. Personally, I don't feel it to be any different online to 'real life'.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately some people do seem to think that online relationships operate differently or are perhaps a hobby. I happen to take it seriously and don't care to continue with people who use 'friendships' to fill idle time. If a 'real life' friend had beliefs that I find offensive, I would seriously reevaluate that relationship, I don't treat online friends any differently. I have friends who have completely opposite political and religious opinions than mine. We have agreed to disagree and not to discuss it or inflict our opinions on each other. If there is not enough left to continue a relationship, then it is over for me, no going back.
ReplyDeleteI have had friends on Multiply where there were significant differences, they have since left Multiply. When they originated a post that I had problems with, I left a comment that I wouldn't being commenting on that thread, or in one situation, that I wouldn't be commenting on a particular series. I didn't remark about what they said on someone else's blog, as long as they didn't bring those opinions to me. It did however alter how I felt about the person and the company that they kept. That actually made it easier for me not to feel obligated to comment on every posting that they put up.
In short, I believe that my time to confront such behavior would be if and when it is put at my feet. I have seen people participate in chat and agree with the speaker just to be part of the conversation. That alters my opinion of the person as well. I believe that injustice should be confronted and I strongly believe that one must consider the source before taking on a confrontation. To take on a weak intellectually challenged person is a complete waste of time, there is little to be gained. The dilemma is whether to keep the friend or not. I have told someone that I didn't like her behavior on other sites and in emails to me and did end the contact. She is an intelligent person and had been warned often that I didn't want to hear what was being said, she didn't listen and is now gone. I also have a contact who doesn't have a clue that she is narrow minded, but she isn't hurting anyone and doesn't seem to notice that I ignore half of her posts. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. I don't think that there is a 'one size fits all' solution to the dilemma.
Philosophically I believe -
"Do what you want, but be honest about it - and don't hurt others."
Thank you Frank, for your very considered reply, I think that one line ( above re 'when it's put at my feet') is very relevant. This was not left on my site and the author is not a contact of mine, which is a totally different situation to people who come to your site and leave their hate messages on your pages. But I can't help thinking this is one way in which life online is very different to life in the 'real' world. In the 'real' world someone shouting obscenities to passers by and inciting hatred would be challenged and could even be charged by the police. Not that likely I must admit but possible, but here online the feeling is mostly, as you say.............challenge it when its laid at your door.
ReplyDeleteI shall continue to consider your reply, but for now I have to go, yet again, its very late here. One more thing before I leave for the night, I agree with you about friends online, I consider my online friends to be 'real' friends and not some sort of time passing hobby.
Thanks Mitchy and Cille..............thanks for your input.................just realise Mitchy, you are on UK time to........another one who doesn't sleep??
ReplyDeleteshall return to this topic tomorow, but for now..........have to call it a night.
I am back. Supper was tasty.
ReplyDeleteIf the person who wrote the offensive blog was not my contact, and it was offensive enough, I would block him/her. Or I might say something in disagreement, trying not to be preachy.
My friends might get PM's along the lines of "I was surprised to read what you said on Smith's blog on xyz." I would attempt a dialog if I cared about my friend. And we would see where we'd go from there.
Or, if I was not that close to my contacts who were "joining in", I might just ignore their participation. But it would color my opinion of them.
I am such a coward Loretta, I think if I were ofended I would use my perogative and Delete after some thought. I would feel dishonest to myself to continue with something I found objectionable. Sleep tight.
ReplyDeletewill think about this-
ReplyDeletewell mostly I do like you leave then come back if it is important -and I have blocked a few for this sort of stuff-
Loretta, our cyber world is so real that it evokes such deep visceral responses--every emotion and has raised this polemic. I tend to be very forgiving and hate to let go of people and things. However, at one point here, I had a few friends whose religious beliefs were very over the top for me, and then other people were making comments on their pages that I couldn't abide by.
ReplyDeleteI began to realize that I don't have to be everyone's friend and I don't have to keep people who make me feel uncomfortable and who make me feel like I am compromising my beliefs. Click, and good bye. In short, in rel life if you were in a situation that made you uncomfortable you would get the heck out.
Interesting what goes on here.
There are people on my friends list who have very different political beliefs and are open and critical of those related to mine, thought hey mean no personal attack. I try to ignore it and not take it to heart unless it is directed right at me. I try to see the good in everyone and I know that everyone isn't going to think like I do but may still be a lovely person.
The important bottom line I guess, is respect.
And now to bed.
I think you are bringing up very important points! My point of view is that we each have our own guidelines, our own rights and wrongs, and those guidelines are right for us, and everyone elses are right for them. Judging anyone elses as wrong, and assuming yours are right, is where the trouble (and wars!) start. Acceptance is where it's at. Opposing, let's say war, is adding energy to it, it is the energy of opposition, not acceptance. If you oppose a racist, the energy is the same ~ non acceptance and opposition. The details are details, energy is energy, and you add that energy of non acceptance to the collective, you feed it by opposing it. You won't even bump into people like that in the first place if your own energy of oppsition isn't drawing them to you.
ReplyDeleteI often read things on here which I find offensive not only to me but to others. However, I don't think I've seen any rants like this (unless it was over on the Conspiracy Theories group where there are quite a lot of anti-Hispanic posts) and certainly not with my online friends involved, whom I consider to be friends and I try to treat them as such. I really don't know what I would do because, as you say, the person whose page you saw the comments from your friends on isn't a contact of yours. That person, I suppose, has every right to say whatever he wants on his own page whether or not we agree. I often read political or social opinions which I don't agree with written by my contacts and I say nothing. After all, we come from all different backgrounds on here. By posting this, you've made it clear to everyone exactly how you feel. Perhaps it's time for your friends out there to make a move in your direction - that is if they are interested - and to tell you why they feel as they do.
ReplyDeleteWhat I dislike about the internet is that there are always some people everywhere you go who have to spoil things for everyone by making racist statements and being generally rude just because they think they can. Sometimes I feel sorry for these people (are they so unhappy that they must take it out on others?), and then sometimes I have to say what I think like I did on one of the recent threads on User Support.
Anyway, Loretta, whatever you decide to do will be the right thing.
On the street corner, it is likely that I would just leave because it might turn physically violent.
ReplyDeleteOn the blog of a person who is not linked with me, I would probably say nothing. I would indeed be surprised to see my friends saying things along those lines. If that is how they feel, it will probably come out in their blogs where it could be gently addressed.
When I come across this sort of thing in person, with friends of friends, for example, I do speak, but not in a confrontational manner (I hope), but rather in a way that would encourage brotherly love for all, yes, all, even "those" people.
But it is not through violent exchanges or emotionalism that progress can be made. I tend to seek out those who already have some love in their heart.
Thank you,You are right Cille, difference is good and I know politically I'm to the left of many people here and there is nothing wrong with political difference, untill it descends into name calling and hate messages. Also, although political difference is good and yes people should try to find common ground, a homophobic is a homophobic, there is no middle ground there, you either are or your're not, and regardles of where you sit on the political spectrum, to the right, to the left or bang in the middle, there is no place for racism, homophobia or hate messages. But generally I do agree that differene is good.
ReplyDeleteYou are so right, which makes the whole thing pretty difficult, but like I said to Cille, I guess my 'subjective' definition of the offensive is when political difference descends into deliberate hate messages, homophobia and/or racism, and I dare say there are a few more to be added to the list But yes.........working your way around the subjective is a minefield.
ReplyDeleteThanks Bennett...............that's more or less what I did, and untill I read comments on another blog by the same person I thought it was sorted, now I'm begining to think comments like this are the 'norm' for this person.
ReplyDelete