I watched the full length version of this programme late last night. It is exactly what it says it is; an exploration into Miami Mega-jail, one of America's largest and most violent of jails, a holding pen for almost 6000 un-convicted inmates.
During the programmed Louie interviewed two youths, one who was only 14 and one who was just 16 at the time of the alleged crime. I know our systems are really different, and I know violent crime is rampant in some parts of America, but I still find it well… odd in the extreme to see minors in such a harsh adult environment.
Something else I noticed was that all prisoners on this programme seemed to be non-white. Is this usual??
In another part of the programme a female officer seems to be saying a violent attack on another prisoner who has ‘psych’ problems, was justified because this ‘psych’ prisoner was ‘acting out’
The whole thing was quite bizarre really.
I’m just wondering what others think about this.
i have never heard of this. sounds intriguing!
ReplyDelete"But the roots of the problem may be closer to home, as suggested by words attributed to former Pennsylvania prison guard Charles Graner...
ReplyDelete"The Christian in me says it's wrong, but the corrections officer in me says, 'I love to make a grown man piss himself.""
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4858580.stm
This is an appalling situation that many of us in the US have known about as well as Amnesty International. It is more horrible than may be believed. Women give birth shackled to the bed. Yes, most inmates are people of color. People can be held for years if they cannot post bail. This is probably not the worse prison in the US. That distinction may go to Riker's Island in New York.
ReplyDeleteYes, because we take young men and put them into a sadistic violent environment where they are raped and hardened. When they get out they have gone from being petty criminals into dangerous people. It is a horrid shame. I belong to some organizations that work against this, but the tide in the USA is to spend less money on rehabilitation and more on prisons.
ReplyDeleteI am glad there are people exposing this to the world, but, sadly, they do not vote in the US.
that happens here too, sometimes people are held on remand for years waiting for trial, not specifically because they can't afford bail money but in cases where the person is thought to represent too much of a threat to live outside.
ReplyDeleteI struggle to work out how I feel about it, both there and here. When you listen to these people, it's as if they speak a different language, they don't use the same rule book as the rest of us and they do represent a danger to society. But they also lack emotional maturity, they struggle to express themselves coherently and if they were't brutalised by life before entering the system they sure as hell will be once part of the system. There has to be a better way. It was an interesting look at another world.
The bit I find most shocking is the way children are incarcerated with violent adults and treated as adult offenders. What ever your views on crime and the law, there is no excuse for doing this to children, that's the one bit I find shocking. I thought children were only treated this way in 'other' countries, not in so called civilised western countries.
ReplyDeleteMany of these young men were born (I am guessing) to very young mothers and absent fathers. They were brought up on their own without the early infant-parent bonding needed to form secure attachments and a sense of empathy and right and wrong. One "better way" would be to start with support to young mothers and their babies. but OOOPS - that might be socialism and raaise TAXES and you know how the usa feels aabout that. The waste of life is appalling. It is tragic.
ReplyDeleteYou talking about the US??
ReplyDeletethat prison must cost a fortune in taxes, with nill return for your money
ReplyDeleteYes, of course you are right. As you see things. As much of the US sees things, prisons are worth their weight in gold. They keep dangerous criminals off the streets.
ReplyDeleteTaxes for preventing crime = bad
Taxes for punitive and counterproductive prisons = good.
There is a lot of hate in the US and much of it is focused on people in jail. And the fact that most of them are black men, well......
I am not aware that this has been aired on US TV, not even by BBC America. I see that parts of it are on YouTube and other Internet outlets. It did get some attention in Florida from the newspapers. The comment that caught my attention is:
ReplyDelete"When Louis Theroux: Miami Mega Jail first aired on May 22, the BBC documentary made it look like inmates -- not guards -- were really in charge of the Miami-Dade Pre-Trial Detention Center downtown.
Corrections officials say the documentary is misleading, but the scenes were disturbing enough for county commissioner Barbara Jordan to call for an investigation yesterday.
"I haven't even seen the entire video. I'm really frightened about what else is on there," Jordan said. "I don't want this to blow up in our face."
Jordan called for the investigation during a Public Safety & Healthcare Administration Committee meeting."
Good for commissioner Jordan, however, that is at the county level, not even raised to the Florida State level. An investigation by the county, investigating itself, is going nowhere fast. It is a County jail, it isn't a prison since the detainees haven't yet been convicted of any charges. So the State hasn't even weighed in on the issue. That system is a good example why many of us have a problem with the States having so much autonomy without Federal guidelines and oversight. That is an age old battle between conservatives, for total State autonomy, and liberals, for Federal laws regulating such systems for some degree of consistency throughout the country. Florida lawmakers are now majority conservative with full backing from the so called tea party. They believe in fair and equal laws, as long as they are written by white, conservative, christian 'patriots'.
The rightwing, or wingnut, or moral majority, or social conservative movement that is trying to take hold of the US reminds me of why our founders left England in the 17th century.
What is happening in the Miami Mega-jail are clearly civil rights violations. As long as the people are detained by the county and ignored at higher levels, the county will determine what the rights are.
there is a lot of hate every where, its very difficult trying to figure out a way that would make things any better or a way to somehow dissolve all that hate. When you watch that particular programme you realise how ingrained these attitudes are. But for me, it still comes back to the children, how has the US 'got away' with treating children like this, I'm pretty sure there are international laws preventing children being treated this way...........the whole thing is just hard to understand.
ReplyDeleteI find this curious and am pondering that these prisons are their own 'worlds'/societies in themselves. They would have their own way of looking at everything, like a 'sub-society' or even 'sub-culture' within its walls, and it makes me wonder about the use of the psychiatrict profession and 'progressive' psychological science? Curious indeed.
ReplyDeleteMany of the jail and prison systems are being taken out of the hands of public service employees and contracted out to private corporations. The return comes into play when the corporations contribute money to the Republican officials and their campaigns. The politicians realize the return, not the taxpayer.
ReplyDeletemost of this series is on youtube, each episode is an hour long and I think the episodes have been split into 4 to post on youtube. He has done quite a few investigations in America, if you are interested look for ''Louis Theroux - America's Medicated Kids'' or ''Law And Disorder In Philadelphia-Louis Theroux'', I think they are all on youtube. Personally I quite like his style, he works on the theory... 'give a person enough rope and they will hang themselves'..................
ReplyDeleteso sad that the bottom line in absolutely EVERY THING is political gain. No one seems to do anything for genuine reasons Any more, we live in a world of game players who are just out to win with no regard to consequences. And the awful thing is that the longer this goes on, the more acceptable it appears to be,
ReplyDeleteCouldn't agree more, and including how it's becoming more acceptable.
ReplyDeletethanks for your response Frank, but from what I saw last night I don't understand how any one could interpret that as 'inmates not guards in charge', the guards looked pretty much in charge at all times to me. Neither do I know how it could be seen as 'misleading', what was seen as 'misleading'? and why did the commissioner call for an enquiry? did she think the inmates were not treated well?? or maybe too well, did it look as if the inmates had too many privileges or something?What was the outcome of the enquiry? and if the enquiry uncovered civil rights violations is that then reason for the state to
ReplyDeleteThat's the last that I have heard of it. By it not being shown on US TV, we lost any national awareness and debate on the issue. There are people who do go to YouTube daily to see whatever is there. For something like this they often have to be directed there. A showing on a major TV network or being picked-up as a news story is the way to get a majority attention.
ReplyDeleteI am long past trying to interpret rhetorical statements made by law enforcement or politicians. I often think that they work from a dictionary that most of us don't have access to.
Seems to be a very simplistic system, like the old addage goes "out of sight, out mind"...or in this case "out of sight, off the streets". It seems to matter little about the conditions that cause of violent crime. Catch the culprits and lock 'em up. Who cares why they did it. It's a typical political 'quick fix' solution. And by not addressing the root problems means it will never get any better.
ReplyDeleteI think you have a strong point here.
ReplyDelete