I have just spend an hour or so online looking for the local consumer protection office, eventually found it and …come Monday someone will have my complaint sitting in their in-box.Bloody double glazing salesmen, I hate them as much as I hate the banks, in fact I think they work in collaboration with each other. Truth is I’m not looking for double glazing or any thing else, there is nothing wrong with my windows, I’m a believer in don’t fix what’s not broken.
BUT………..I am so very sick of these people phoning me all hours of the day and night and offering this discount, that discount special offer this and limited period that. Their latest sales ploy is to phone in their usual bright and cheery voices claiming to be Margaret or Jim or some other such alias and say oh so politely Good Morning and how are you today? (as if they care) do you mind if I ask you a few quick questions? I always ask if they are selling something and they always reply, ‘’oh no this is just a few quick questions’’. They then ask what sort of property I live in, is it detached?, semidetached? or a flat?, they ask if I am the homeowner? and then they ask if I am the sole home owner? or if the property is jointly owned?. Having established that I am in fact the property owner they go on to ask what home improvements I would consider if it were completely free of charge………oh like I didn’t see that one coming!!
They then cajole you into saying you would like something, even if you don’t particularly want any thing. I think many people must say windows, patio, conservatory, football pitch, Olympic sized swimming pool (joke!)………..ANYTHING……….just to get them to shut up. Anyway once they have enticed you into answering they ‘put you through’ to someone to ‘discuss this with you’. At absolutely NO obligation of course! By this time in the conversation I’ve usually either hung up out of utter boredom or, if I’m feeling particularly belligerent toward these imbeciles, I take it upon myself to point out the definition of, and difference between, 'market research’, or in their language, ‘asking a few questions’, and sales……….and this is when they usually hang up on me . I wouldn’t mind them hanging up on me if they spread the word that I’m not a particularly cooperative recipient of unsolicited sales calls, no such luck, they call back, sometimes even with in the hour.
Which brings me to last nights call, I thought I’d try another tactic. So I said yes I would love a double glazing sales person to call at my home and discuss this with me. He arrived this morning very promptly at 11am…………….what a mistake that was, an unforgettable experience and one I wouldn’t wish on my worse enemy.
Anyhow………….as a result of that visit, this is the email I’ve just sent off to consumer protection.
I’m looking for some advice about what is or is not considered acceptable standards of behavior and sales technique of double glazing sales people. I was recently visited in my home by a double glazing sales person and although he seemed genuine and professional to begin with, once I made it clear that I wanted a written quote to compare with other written quotes he became very persistent and reluctant to leave. He said his company did not provide written quotes and what he was offering was a special deal and could only be guaranteed if I signed there and then.
He was also very keen for me to sign up for the finance option. When I asked what the APR of the finance was he initially said he didn’t know, he followed that by saying the APR didn’t matter and it was a very good deal. Actually the APR turned out to be 27% which in my ( limited) financial knowledge appears to be a very bad deal.
The visit was supposed to last one hour, after one hour I attempted to hurry up the proceedings and told him several times all that remained was for him to measure up and give me a quote. He eventually quoted me a figure verbally and I thanked him and told him I had some one else coming to give me a quote the following day and I would compare the two quotes. I asked several times for a written quote but he said his company didn’t give written quotes.
He became more and more reluctant to leave. I asked him several times to leave but he responded by saying things like; what if the price were reduced? Do you like the product? You don’t need another quote, he just went on and on prolonging a conversation I considered finished. I did have to become very assertive and say plainly ‘I want you to leave my house now’ and that was after he had been in my house two and half hours. He still refused to go until he had spoken to his boss on his ‘phone, I told him he could speak to his boss out side and not in my house. He called his boss while he was still in my house and then attempted to give me the phone saying his boss would like a quick word with me. I refused to take the phone and again asked him to leave; he then said to his boss he was leaving because I had asked him to go. He arrived at my house at 11am and didn’t leave until a few minutes after 2.30 pm. In all that time he didn’t offer me any ID, he didn’t giver me a business card or any official literature with either his name or his company details. He simply said his name was Kevin and his company was Weathersheild,
When he first entered my house he commented on the number of birthday cards on display and asked whose birthday it was, I told him it was mine a few days ago. It must have been obvious to him from the cards ( and balloons hanging from the ceiling) that I had just turned 60. He also asked several times if I lived alone, and I told him that I do in fact live alone. Now I’m left feeling he viewed me as a single woman of 60 and easy prey to his persistent banal sales patter.
I honestly feel this man breached acceptable boundaries in both behavior and sales technique. I would like to know if this practice is in fact legal, and if it is why is it?, no one should be subjected to that level of harassment in their own home. If what he did exceeded what is legally allowed, what can I do about it?
Thank you for your help.
My complaint doesn’t go any where near explaining the full horrors of this mornings visit but hopefully, as a result of either this complaint, or me throwing the sales man out …………..maybe, just possibly……….the unsolicited phone calls will stop. I live in hope.
In seriousness……….another obnoxious example of how completely corrupt our system of capitalist consumerism is.
I HATE BANKS, I HATE DOUBLE GLAZING SALES PEOPLE, I HATE UNSOLICITED PHONE CALLS. OUR SYSTEM STINKS.
HUGS, dear Loretta......because i know you are a kind and polite person, who (like me) dislikes having her personal time and space infringed upon. and that makes us cranky and not like our usual pleasant and kind selves.
ReplyDeletei got to the point where i would simply hang up on them. i figured if they were being rude to me with their presumptuous phone calls, then there was no harm-no foul in being rude in return. the phone calls became so numerous (not just from double glazing folks, it was ALL SORTS calling!), we got a new, unlisted land line phone number. the peace and quiet is heavenly now. ; )
what a wonderfully polite way of putting it :-)
ReplyDeleteI know I could stop these calls if I really wanted too and I know it sounds very silly but I don't think it should be my responsibility to screen out unsolicited calls, I think the calls should be illegal...............I consider these call to be an intrusion, these people take advantage of vulnerable members of the public and... the bit that infuriates me.. they LIE to entice people into agreements they don't want and can't afford. How bloody dare people who I don't know, call me and attempt to sell me stuff I don't want by lying to me...............Its this sort of out of control immoral consumerism that is destroying us.
i wholeheartedly agree with you, Loretta. our 'kids' told me about the US 'do not call' list....but sometimes even *that* did not keep them away! yes, it is quite horrifying to realize....they do lie and it is so sad that some lonely and vulnerable folk will fall for it....the bloody cheek of those who have this scam and those who agree to become their minions....! and somehow, knowing that Karma *WILL* find them does not seem to soothe, does it?
ReplyDeleteThe whole thing makes me so angry...............I'm angry at the well rehearsed sales patter, the whole system is designed to maximise sales regardless of if the product is wanted or needed or affordable. Those who sell in this way are despicable, it makes me angry that people are not only allowed but encouraged to sell sell sell, it makes me angry that no one sees this as immoral or irresponsible or in any way wrong. It makes me angry that the sales people are arrogant enough to believe they have the power to make someone buy something they don't want and can't afford, what the hell sort of society encourages and rewards that sort of thinking and behaviour. It makes me angry that some people are stupid enough to actually be taken in by it all.......but I shouldn't be angry with people for being stupid i should be angry with people for taking advantage of others stupidity. What makes me most angry is the way this has become ingrained and embedded in our society.......its 'NORMAL'.............how sick is our society to accept this as normal??
ReplyDeletei hear you, Loretta. i know.......it is wrong on every level that is what we know and accept as common decency and mutual respect. i know there is not much i can do for the others they prey upon, except hope that they will have enough strength and common sense to know that it is not right. one must learn to let it go.....because,like it or not, the predators *are* a part of our reality. here is (very fervently) hoping that those who do not understand will develop a bit more wisdom and inner strength. and bless you for caring so much. that is part of what makes you such a special angel. PLEASE try not to let the bastards get you down. because if they do, that means that they win.
ReplyDeletelol...............no worries there.............I intend to take them down, I don't intend to let this rest, somehow this complaint of mine will be taken seriously.The stupid thing is ...........if 'Kevin' and I can only assume that is his real name, had the good sense to accept I wouldn't sign and just left me a quote and gone away, I would not be complaining.
ReplyDeletePerhaps one day our respective countries will allow us to put ourselves on a 'no-call list' like the US (Although I know probably some of these unwanted calls do get through, I believe the sales person is required to give you a phone number and name. Correct me if I'm wrong, please). I have caller ID (again I know they can trick that) and don't answer the phone when I don't recognize the number. I figure if it's important, they can leave .a message. We get lots of calls here from South America - outsourcing at its best - sometimes on holidays and late at night. One thing I would never do is to give out a lot of personal info to someone I don't know. Please let us know if you get a response to your complaint.
ReplyDeleteoh, i know. they sort of remind me of boyfriends i had when i was 14 and 15, LOL. i know you will find a way to deal with them, Loretta. and i hope you will tell us your solution. ; )
ReplyDeleteP.S. Double-glazed windows are great because they also help mute the noise from the traffic - unless they're open that is!
ReplyDeleteHow horrible!!! Glad you're writing in. I'd send a rather more harshly worded complaint to his company too!! Good for you! HUGS xxx
ReplyDeleteThat is doubtful, unless that salesman's company is the only one calling you.
ReplyDeleteI could fill up pages explaining what I know about telemarketing and other types of unsolicited telephone calls. I may hate that activity more than any other intrusion in my life, so I certainly understand how you are feeling. I changed to an unpublished telephone number and they still found me. Now I have a gadget attached to my telephone that will block 80 incoming telephone numbers. When a number gets through and rings on my telephone, I hang up on them and enter their telephone into the blocker, then when they call back, they are rejected before my telephone rings.
There is little point to offering advice, since there must be differences in the US and UK consumer laws, so no point in confusing things. The consumer protection office is the place to start. Here it would be The Better Business Bureau.
I would love to, but I've been online looking for the company and can't find it, and as I said, he gave me no business card or any type of official literature with the company details on. All I have is what he told me, his name is Kevin and he works for weathershield. The only double glazing company called Weathershield I can find is down south. He was deliberately vague. What sort of reputable company refuses to give a written quote?
ReplyDeleteYou've answered your own question, Loretta. It's not a reputable company. I'd much rather pay a bit more for a service I know has a guarantee.
ReplyDeleteThis goes a lot deeper for me than the intrusion into my own personal life, although of course it is infuriating. I think what I hate most is that it appears to be legal, its an accepted practice in our society and no one considers it to be in any way immoral or undesirable. For sales people to act in this way is expected, acceptable and even praised. If a particular company did especially well and increased its sales we ( as a society) would all be applauding the success of the company. And that success is made on the backs of these parasitic sales people who lie cheat and manipulate ordinary people into buying what they don't want and can't afford. Consumerism is the name of the game and any thing goes if it increases sales. the system stinks.
ReplyDeletewe have caller id
ReplyDeleteand we still never answer the phone
:)
Next time one calls tell them YES I'm very interested and WANT to talk with you but to please hold on, put the phone down ~ then walk away ..... maybe do some vacuuming or turn the dish washer or keep it quiet and read a book ! Do this "every time" even when they call back and they will take you off their lists ! My brother tries to sell them his car ! I used to ask them if they are happy with their long distance supplier! ( I used to work for the provincial phone company...so I can go on at some length about the whys and wherefores long distance plans ) Another thing I do which give me great satisfaction is with junk mail ~ I learned how the prepaid mail stamp works... under the contract the company is only charged for the postage IF the envelope is returned. I like to take visa junk mail and put it in the Amex envelope, swap the bank offers with the Macdonald's coupons.Sometimes I just recycle the paper and send the envelopes back empty, either way it COSTS them...and I get a little kick out of inconveniencing them ! I bet the minimum wage workers in the mail room get a laugh out of it too ! The do not call lists are a JOKE ! Anyone can buy the list under the pretext of paying due diligence to not phone those people. All my telemarketing calls concerning business' here in Canada now come from the US~ which is great for me because I just don't answer (caller ID) ! If it's one of my cousins they'll leave a message! It sounds like US business are opening offices in South America, so that they can call people on the do not call lists in the US as per brendainmad's post .
ReplyDeleteLoretta, I haven't had to deal with any large upgrades in my condo, but my ex and I did a complete reno on a post and beam in the 90's. I would put a stack of folders with their competitors names on them on the table where they could see them while we had coffee and discussed their price. the more folders the lower the estimates got. I would also mention at some point that, we needed to wrap things up as I had another rep coming for an estimate in 20 minutes ! For each job I would book 4 to 6 contractors in one day at one hour intervals.and only companies listed in the phone book. The results ? kitchen cabinet refinishing 2000$ under the first estimate, tar and gravel roof 3200$ less than the first estimate ( 1100$ and 4 cases of beer total price). LOL ~ And remember in this scenario YOU are the employer, if they refuse to give you a straight answer to a direct question show them the door. I would have been very frightened if someone I asked to leave my house refused to go, I would consider it a threat. Good on you for following through with a letter of complaint!
Ok my advice? You ask them who they are. If you don't know them and they won't tell you, you remind them that under the Data Protection act it is illegal to contact people and not give that information out ;o) I don't know if thats true but hey - it makes them think. You then ask, politely that the remove your details from the company register. To persist in calling is harrassment and jim or margaret or whoever will be getting a call from the police accordingly.
ReplyDeleteIf they still persist, I would get a whistle - a football whistle. Blow into it down the phone and keep blowing til they hang up :o)
Call BT and register your number with the telephone preference service. This makes it illegal for such companies to call.
One of the tricks I use is if I have caller display, I write the number down. If that number shows on caller ID - I simply don't answer. The problem is, they play a numbers game. If you answer the phone, it shows you are in and they WILL call. Disconnect or turn your phone speaker off during the times you really don't want to be disturbed. Trust me, it will only last a couple of weeks and then they give up and write your number off as dead and move onto some other poor sap.
What you need to do babes is NOT give your phone no out on forms, online or in real life, unless absolutely required to do so. The reason is, every time you put your number on the form, that company then sells it to one of these bloody companies and you get the cycle again. Make one up or use a mobile phone no - an old one preferably that you no longer use.
(((hugs)))
It will get better - promise! :o)
Babes of you go on line and look for the telephone preference service - BE VERY careful. There is a company online that is VERY similar but is a scam.
ReplyDeleteIts best to go through BT or your phone service provider.
It takes about a fortnight but once you are on their list you will never get these calls again :o)
Nessie
It isn't. Its illegal now. Its harrassment. If you ask them to remove your name from their register and they fail to do so and continue calling, you can report the company to trading standards and they can be prosecuted big time.
ReplyDeleteOne of the other things you need to watch out for are "bot calls". These are computerised dialling systems. If you answer the phone and there isnt anyone there right away, its a bot. These calls are now illegal. Trading standards are VERY interested to hear about these companies :o)
Last time someone phoned me it was time for the Rugby match, she wanted to know the state of my skin. To sell me anti-wrinkles cream? That I'll never know because when I answered I had no time for her, watching a Rugby match, she was voiceless ;-D
ReplyDeleteThis is by no means a new thing. I had a very similar experience way back in the early 1980's with a salesperson from a double-glazing company. It had been the usual cold-call that started thigs off. At the time I was recently married with my first home, we actually WERE genuinely interested in getting double-glazing. We boooked an appointment for the salesperson to call. My (now ex) wife would discuss things with him as I had to be out helping her uncle with some work. I arrived back home that day about three hours after the appointment was booked for to find the salesman still there, with Vicky saying that he would not leave. He was basically refusing to go until she had signed up for his company's products there and then. He then started in on me, trying the same tactic. I'm a fairly polite person, but after repeated requests that he leave and that we would 'think about' his quotation (again spoken not written) and having him ignore me, I started to get angry. Vicky's uncle had come back to the house with me. With a nod in his direction I told the salesman that if he did not leave immediately, we we would physically pick him up and throw him out. And to to get the point across, we both moved towards him. It did the trick, he disappeared rather rapidly, and I never heard from the company again. I guess word got back to the sales office.
ReplyDeleteI definately agree with Tismek. Get yourself registered for the 'Phone Preference Service' as soon as possible. Book it through your own phone-provider, not a 3rd Party service. I've used it for years and rarely get any kind of cold-calling from within the uK. The PPS is unable, however, to block calls made from outside the UK, so Indian call-centres may still be able to reach you, but on the whole it's definately worth having.
Also, something that I do is have a phone with caller-ID on it. I program in all the numbers I usually expect to hear from (friends, family, regular business). Then if a call comes in listed as 'unknown or unidentified' I ignore it.
Thanks Mitch.............and you are probably right I should get these calls blocked, but its not so much the nuisance value of the calls that infuriates me as the fact that we, as a society, are allowing, even condoning this type of sales tactic. I'm going to pursue my complaint and try to get this sort of thing recognised. Ultimately what i would like is the whole practice recognised as unethical and curbed legally. I know that's a bit of a dream, but its what i would like far more than simply blocking the calls, that doesn't solve any thing.
ReplyDeleteDream it may be, but worth pursuing. I know it infuriates a lot of people. It's a subject that comes up on Watchdog, and other comsumer shows, often. I think there may be organisations dedicated to this very purpose. Try checking out the BBC Watchdog page, there might be some usful links there
ReplyDeleteit has always gone on
ReplyDeletefrom windows to sweepers
they get the most sales from preasure tactics
i know people who have done it
they are told to not leave until they get the sale
ask for a glass of water, talk about anything to stay until they buy
Yah! Loretta, yes, sock it to 'em. I'm wondering if I should go to the council offices tomorrow, myself, and putting in a complaint about a mental pomeranian that attacked me while I was out yesterday. Probably should.
ReplyDeleteIn Australia, we have a Do Not Call registry. It means that when one applies to have one's phone numbers (inc. mobiles) registered, no more telephone solicitors. If they phone they are breaking the law. I still get the odd call from charities but wonder how reputable they are as businessmen own many of them and use charities as a front for skimming while still operating as legit charities. So I hang up on them too.
I have a sign on my door "Please do not knock: No salespeople please". You might consider putting up a small discreet sign like that. You have a perfect right to your privacy.
Also, in the news lately there's been tv ads warning people of door-to-door salespeople soliticing odd jobs and jobs like carpentry, roof fixing, you name it. Now there's a phone number to call about all unregistered tradesmen. And these blighters target elderly people a lot. And they will target single women too.
I remember one place I lived up the bush and I got the JWs soliticing every other weekend. I wrote to someone for advice. He said to keep a bucket of water handy by the door. Um...dunno. But, maybe...They sure made me mad enough. The parasites.